Where did God come from?

[RATTER15]

Well!!!!!!!

[RATTER15]

Typical, A total non answer!!

[ludwig]

// God was before Creation, this means the original Eternity contained only God. //

Same queston to you Khandro. When you say god, what do you mean by it?

[vivandorron]

If God did not require a creator then the same can apply to the universe.

Ron.

[birdie1971]

^ Succinctly put.

[sith123]

yes naomi, but i have faith, you cannot say that you have "faith" in the big bang as a lot of atheists ive talked to say they neither believe it, or if they did, they say faith implies a religious view.

Maybe you do have faith in the big bang, but even though i know you will say it was science, something had to create it or start it of.

[sith123]

ratter, i respect you and was not directly calling you stupid as i cannot judge, because ive never met you. What i was saying is that it is funny that you try to disprove the existence of god even when you have nothing to support your views. all you say is that there is no god just because you cannot see him. There are a lot of things you cannot or could not see but they were proven in time like oxygen etc. However the reason that you cannot see god is that religion is about faith and trust. If you could see god than people would come up with other silly responces.

[naomi24]

Sith, I've not said I have faith. I don't. I agree with you. I think something had to 'start it off' - but no one knows what it was, and you can't in all seriousness attribute it to something for which you have no evidence. I could just as well insist that there's a super-advanced alien civilisation existing in an adjacent universe that decided to create another. I have no more reason to believe that than to believe it was created by a supernatural intelligence. In fact I have less reason to attribute it to a supernatural intelligence because there is no evidence for the supernatural whatsoever.

[Ankou]

sith- jake the peg, posted something some time ago, which i have the persuasion to go along with. it was along the lines of vacuum, quantum mechanics and virtual particles, something out of nothing. he obvioulsy put it much better than i ever could. even though our minds are unable to deal with the concept, we have to be open to the fact that before the big bang, before the universes collided and before that etc, that there existed : nothing. no ex nihilo nihil fit.

"Nothing exists except atoms and empty space; everything else is opinion." - Democritus of Abdera

"In the very beginning there was a void—a curious form of vacuum—a nothingness containing no space, no time, no matter, no light, no sound. Yet the laws of nature were in place, and this curious vacuum held potential."

[Khandro]

@Ludwig. I believe "God" to be something beyond human comprehension, and yet I feel it is there. To understand what I mean needs the use of both sides of the brain; the left side, the rational scientific, and the right side, using intuition and emotion.

[Ankou]

but god looks like a bloke right, man in his own image an all that ?

[jake-the-peg]

Speak my name and I appear, its only polite!

10 years ago pretty much everybody would have gone along with Stephen Hawking's view which is the one I referred to.

We see matter created and distroyed all the time on the small scale, particles and their anti-particles flash in and out of existance. It is possible but incredibly improbable for a sizable amout of to be created - even a Universe

The probability is however mind-blowingly small. However at the begining of the Universe there is no time - therefore probabilititys don't really have a meaning. And the improbble can happen.

In recent years other minority ideas have started to gain mainstream support - although still a minority - Important people like Roger Penrose have started to back them.

His preferred model is cyclical - in spectacularly long periods of time all matter decays to energy - there is no matter anymore.

A strange thing happens when there is no mass at all. Dimensions disappear a gigantic Universe is equivilent to one with no dimensions at all - the big bang restarts and the cycle repeats.

These ideas are very difficult to grasp - mostly because they involve concepts of no time and no physical space.

Such concepts are exceptionally difficult to come to terms with.

Effectively we're down to Occam's razor - the simplest argument is the best

1/ The Universe has no creator

2/ God Has No creator and created the Universe

3/ Sparky the Robot has no Creator and created God who created the Universe

Now which to choose!

[jake-the-peg]

Khandro - I would seriously be most interested to know why you believe your sense of God is external to your brain and not an internal manifestation of it.

Would you accept that it would be possible for your brain to give you such a sensation indistinguishable from that and if not why?

[Khandro]

Jake, yes, I completely accept that possibility, but I don't actually believe it. I cannot subscribe to the idea of a blind, accidental universe, the critical density of which is so finely tuned that in order to evolve in a life-sustaining manner, it must have maintained an extremely precise overall density. The precision of density must have been so great that a change of one part in 1015 (i.e. 0.0000000000001%) would have resulted in a collapse, or big crunch, occurring far too early for life to have developed, or there would have been an expansion so rapid that no stars, galaxies or life could have formed. 'This degree of precision has been compared to a blindfolded man choosing a single lucky penny in a pile large enough to pay off the United States’ national debt.'

[ludwig]

I heard Stephen Hawking say something recently along the lines of 'Looking for anything before the big bang is like looking for a point south of the south pole'.

It is by definition, the beginning of everything, so talking about what caused it makes no sense.

Do I understand any of that? - of course not - but it makes you think.

[sith123]

lol, naomi, there is actually a belief about aliens by the way lol

[naomi24]

Sith, I know there is - but the supernatural is far more rational .... isn't it? :o/

[RATTER15]

I accept that aliens may well have visited us in the past and they are possibly still visiting us, I think it is unlikely but there is a lot of very convincing evidence as Naomi has provided on this site before.

[naomi24]

Ratter, I think Sith means that Muslims believe there may be alien life 'out there' because it's mentioned in the Koran - although obviously the idea wasn't new when the Koran was written.

[RATTER15]

Oh yes, Muslims, lol :)

[sith123]

actually naomi, no, i did not mean that. i was just joking about aliens. Yes, the quran does believe that however on a personal note ive always believed there was aliens, even before i was muslim.