Crosswords2 mins ago
For all the athiests.
127 Answers
How will you feel when you find out that there really is a God and that you have spent your life mocking him?
I know of many athiests who have spent most of their life disbelieving, and then finding out they were wrong.
What will you do?
I know of many athiests who have spent most of their life disbelieving, and then finding out they were wrong.
What will you do?
Answers
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/////Naomi - Oh what a disappointment! You see, Truthabounds says he's right because his book says he is - and you say you're right because your book says you are - so who's right?////
Exactly, that is what Quran asks for and the proof they provide is a book called Bible and I can prove within minutes that if Bible is word of God (which they claim) then why they do not act upon Bible? I will not even talk about my book once they have produced their so called proof. There is only one drawback and that is the internet as people never agree because they can easily disappear. Otherwise I have spoken to 100s if not 1000s Christians and then within minutes they start looking for exit.
Exactly, that is what Quran asks for and the proof they provide is a book called Bible and I can prove within minutes that if Bible is word of God (which they claim) then why they do not act upon Bible? I will not even talk about my book once they have produced their so called proof. There is only one drawback and that is the internet as people never agree because they can easily disappear. Otherwise I have spoken to 100s if not 1000s Christians and then within minutes they start looking for exit.
Truthabounds – Where we do have differences due to certain things I agree with whatever you said in your last post about creation and creator as my religion tells me all that too. But having said that you are unfortunately up against few people who if you would say “left” then they would say “no right” and if you would say “east” then they would say “west”. I am not sure for how long have you been around but I have learnt one thing with experience that say what you want to say and believe but do not expect these people to agree as majority (if not all) have just closed their eyes and does not matter what you would show , say or do they would not agree. Anyone who says that we would only find who was right and who was wrong once we die, I only want to say one thing. Repentance is before you die and nothing you do after you are dead would change anything. So think and think hard as you may not have the next breath and therefore no chance.
Quran Chapter 2
6. As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.
7. Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).
8. Of the people there are some who say: "We believe in Allah and the Last Day;" but they do not (really) believe.
9. Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!
10. In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).
11. When it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "Why, we only Want to make peace!"
12. Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not.
13. When it is said to them: "Believe as the others believe:" They say: "Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Nay, of a surety they are the fools, but they do not know.
Quran Chapter 2
6. As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.
7. Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).
8. Of the people there are some who say: "We believe in Allah and the Last Day;" but they do not (really) believe.
9. Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!
10. In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).
11. When it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "Why, we only Want to make peace!"
12. Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not.
13. When it is said to them: "Believe as the others believe:" They say: "Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Nay, of a surety they are the fools, but they do not know.
Truthabounds -
Your post to me at 18:25 yesterday conveniently and consistently forgot one thing. Of all the things you mentioned - “... jet aircraft to drop bombs in time of war...”, “... wars fought by humans a major cause of human suffering?...”, “... there is more than enough [food] in other lands, so that one of the underlying problems is human greed?...”, etc., you completely failed to comprehend the main thrust of my post which was...
God could stop all of these things from happening if he chose to do so. That is a point you completely failed to address.
You also stated (quite bizarrely in my opinion) that, “... Is it not true that much disease is a result of man’s own poor living habits and his spoiling of the environment for himself and others?”.
No that's not true. In fact that's quite a stupid thing to have written. Please enlighten me and others into how diseases have been the fault of mankind.
Your post to me at 18:25 yesterday conveniently and consistently forgot one thing. Of all the things you mentioned - “... jet aircraft to drop bombs in time of war...”, “... wars fought by humans a major cause of human suffering?...”, “... there is more than enough [food] in other lands, so that one of the underlying problems is human greed?...”, etc., you completely failed to comprehend the main thrust of my post which was...
God could stop all of these things from happening if he chose to do so. That is a point you completely failed to address.
You also stated (quite bizarrely in my opinion) that, “... Is it not true that much disease is a result of man’s own poor living habits and his spoiling of the environment for himself and others?”.
No that's not true. In fact that's quite a stupid thing to have written. Please enlighten me and others into how diseases have been the fault of mankind.
Andy-Hughes: How do you know I don’t do this for a living? From my experience with priests and vicars – I know they don’t teach the Bible. For example – “Thou shalt not kill” so why do they advocate wars and genocide?
I asked a priest once – “Why don’t you teach the truth of the Bible?” His response - “I’d be out of a job!”
Another time I spoke with a vicar, when I pointed out a couple of things in the Bible – his response – “Well I didn’t know that, I’ll check it out”
So don’t tell me the paid vicars and priests know what they are talking about or teaching – I have experience of those who don’t.
Lazygun:
If I say to you “I don’t believe you” I am calling you a liar. And that in effect is what you said.
Also, I said I know “of” many atheists. A twist of words on your part. But saying that, I do know some atheists personally who have become believers.
//Go read some biology primers (infant school level will do) and educate yourself.//
I have probably read more books on evolution, biology, science and creation etc than you and also far more advanced.
Johnnyboy: //"For those who believe no explaination is necessary, For those who do not none will suffice".//
Says it all.
Naomi: //I suspect the soul exists, but for an atheist it makes no sense whatsoever to connect it to a God - so I don't. //
Okay, so reading this comment again, I see that I made a mistake. Apologies. But I don’t change my explanation. The Soul does not exist!!
Hell: Your comment regarding Jesus to the evildoer. Paradise does not refer to Hell. Nor to the grave. Jesus was telling the man that he would have a resurrection, not in a heaven but to the earth, which will be restored to a Paradise. So, you know what the Bible teaches about Hell. Maybe you think you do. With respect, I say I know you don’t.
May be you don’t laugh at God, but you do hold him in derision or scorn by the very comments you make.
Birdie: God could step in, he has the power. But there are reasons why and if you knew your Bible you would know the answer to that. It all goes back to the beginning, when Adam and Eve rebelled and chose to follow Satan. But as I know I am wasting my breath I will not expand on that.
//You also stated (quite bizarrely in my opinion) that, “... Is it not true that much disease is a result of man’s own poor living habits and his spoiling of the environment for himself and others?”.
No that's not true. In fact that's quite a stupid thing to have written. Please enlighten me and others into how diseases have been the fault of mankind. //
For example, many get sick because they allow insects to crawl over food before it is eaten or because the ones preparing the food do not wash their hands beforehand. Sleeping without a mosquito net in malaria-infected regions is also dangerous. In matters of health, it is often true that “an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.”
Drunkenness, sexual immorality, misuse of drugs, and use of tobacco have ruined the health of many. If a person chooses to indulge in these vices and then falls sick. He is to blame for his sickness.
With all the knowledge and assets possessed by modern medical science, why are killer microbes proving so difficult to defeat? One reason is the increased mobility of today’s society. Modern transportation can quickly make a local epidemic global. Jet travel makes it easy for a deadly disease to move, harboured inside an infected person, from one part of the world to any other part of the world within hours.
.
I asked a priest once – “Why don’t you teach the truth of the Bible?” His response - “I’d be out of a job!”
Another time I spoke with a vicar, when I pointed out a couple of things in the Bible – his response – “Well I didn’t know that, I’ll check it out”
So don’t tell me the paid vicars and priests know what they are talking about or teaching – I have experience of those who don’t.
Lazygun:
If I say to you “I don’t believe you” I am calling you a liar. And that in effect is what you said.
Also, I said I know “of” many atheists. A twist of words on your part. But saying that, I do know some atheists personally who have become believers.
//Go read some biology primers (infant school level will do) and educate yourself.//
I have probably read more books on evolution, biology, science and creation etc than you and also far more advanced.
Johnnyboy: //"For those who believe no explaination is necessary, For those who do not none will suffice".//
Says it all.
Naomi: //I suspect the soul exists, but for an atheist it makes no sense whatsoever to connect it to a God - so I don't. //
Okay, so reading this comment again, I see that I made a mistake. Apologies. But I don’t change my explanation. The Soul does not exist!!
Hell: Your comment regarding Jesus to the evildoer. Paradise does not refer to Hell. Nor to the grave. Jesus was telling the man that he would have a resurrection, not in a heaven but to the earth, which will be restored to a Paradise. So, you know what the Bible teaches about Hell. Maybe you think you do. With respect, I say I know you don’t.
May be you don’t laugh at God, but you do hold him in derision or scorn by the very comments you make.
Birdie: God could step in, he has the power. But there are reasons why and if you knew your Bible you would know the answer to that. It all goes back to the beginning, when Adam and Eve rebelled and chose to follow Satan. But as I know I am wasting my breath I will not expand on that.
//You also stated (quite bizarrely in my opinion) that, “... Is it not true that much disease is a result of man’s own poor living habits and his spoiling of the environment for himself and others?”.
No that's not true. In fact that's quite a stupid thing to have written. Please enlighten me and others into how diseases have been the fault of mankind. //
For example, many get sick because they allow insects to crawl over food before it is eaten or because the ones preparing the food do not wash their hands beforehand. Sleeping without a mosquito net in malaria-infected regions is also dangerous. In matters of health, it is often true that “an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.”
Drunkenness, sexual immorality, misuse of drugs, and use of tobacco have ruined the health of many. If a person chooses to indulge in these vices and then falls sick. He is to blame for his sickness.
With all the knowledge and assets possessed by modern medical science, why are killer microbes proving so difficult to defeat? One reason is the increased mobility of today’s society. Modern transportation can quickly make a local epidemic global. Jet travel makes it easy for a deadly disease to move, harboured inside an infected person, from one part of the world to any other part of the world within hours.
.
continued........
Man has invaded the jungles and rain forests and have therefore come into closer contact with insects and warm-blooded animals in which viruses harmlessly reside, reproduce, and die. But when a virus “jumps” from animal to human, the virus may become deadly.
Blood transfusions, used increasingly since the second world war, have also helped to spread infectious diseases. Despite the efforts of science to keep blood free of deadly microbes, blood transfusions have contributed significantly to the spread of hepatitis, cytomegalovirus, antibiotic-resistant bacteria, malaria, yellow fever, Chagas’ disease, AIDS, and many other dreadful diseases.
Even when effective medical knowledge, drugs, and vaccines exist to fight disease, applying them to those in need requires money. Millions live in poverty.
And that is all I have to say on this subject now.
Man has invaded the jungles and rain forests and have therefore come into closer contact with insects and warm-blooded animals in which viruses harmlessly reside, reproduce, and die. But when a virus “jumps” from animal to human, the virus may become deadly.
Blood transfusions, used increasingly since the second world war, have also helped to spread infectious diseases. Despite the efforts of science to keep blood free of deadly microbes, blood transfusions have contributed significantly to the spread of hepatitis, cytomegalovirus, antibiotic-resistant bacteria, malaria, yellow fever, Chagas’ disease, AIDS, and many other dreadful diseases.
Even when effective medical knowledge, drugs, and vaccines exist to fight disease, applying them to those in need requires money. Millions live in poverty.
And that is all I have to say on this subject now.
@Keyplus - One of your last posts suggested that you believe that the world was created by God, and that your proof of this comes from your faith in a book.
Then you go on to criticise those who challenge this worldview of yours as purely naysayers, people who will argue just for the sake of it. This is,as you well know, at best a misrepresentation, a distortion.
Those who challenge this unevidenced, faith based position of yours are arguing from empirical facts, based upon observation, experiment, repetition, and analysis. The evidence that has been collated and gathered over centuries of scientific investigation build upon and support evidence from other disciplines.
The only people here who reject reality, refuse to concede the argument, and dismiss the evidence, purely out of faith ( belief in the absence of evidence), are those, such as yourself, of a strong, religious persuasion.
Then you go on to criticise those who challenge this worldview of yours as purely naysayers, people who will argue just for the sake of it. This is,as you well know, at best a misrepresentation, a distortion.
Those who challenge this unevidenced, faith based position of yours are arguing from empirical facts, based upon observation, experiment, repetition, and analysis. The evidence that has been collated and gathered over centuries of scientific investigation build upon and support evidence from other disciplines.
The only people here who reject reality, refuse to concede the argument, and dismiss the evidence, purely out of faith ( belief in the absence of evidence), are those, such as yourself, of a strong, religious persuasion.
Truthabounds - re. your comment to Lazygun - 'If I say I do not believe you, I am calling you a liar ...' - that conclusion is not valid.
To disbelieve someone is not the same as calling them a liar. To be a liar, you must offer a statement that you know to be untrue. To offer a statement that you believe to be true does not make you a liar, but neither does it make what you say the truth.
For example - if you believe the earth to be flat, you can offer that as the truth, and believe it to be so. Therefore you are not a liar, because you believe what you say to be true. But that does not make it a fact - merely what you believe to be true.
The difference between an argument about the existence of God and the shape of the earth is that the latter can be proved, the former cannot, therefore, in the instance of the existence of God, both sides are able to believe themselves to be speaking the truth, and are therefore not liars, although the veracity of each statement remains unproven.
Perhaps a more acurate way of arguing is to say "I am not saying that what you are saying is a lie, but I believe that what you are saying is not true."
It's a fine line, but an important one.
To disbelieve someone is not the same as calling them a liar. To be a liar, you must offer a statement that you know to be untrue. To offer a statement that you believe to be true does not make you a liar, but neither does it make what you say the truth.
For example - if you believe the earth to be flat, you can offer that as the truth, and believe it to be so. Therefore you are not a liar, because you believe what you say to be true. But that does not make it a fact - merely what you believe to be true.
The difference between an argument about the existence of God and the shape of the earth is that the latter can be proved, the former cannot, therefore, in the instance of the existence of God, both sides are able to believe themselves to be speaking the truth, and are therefore not liars, although the veracity of each statement remains unproven.
Perhaps a more acurate way of arguing is to say "I am not saying that what you are saying is a lie, but I believe that what you are saying is not true."
It's a fine line, but an important one.
TruthAbounds //Religion has caused many wars. Not God. God is impartial so regardless of what side you are on, no matter how many priests and religious leaders pray for God to be with their army, he is not.//
Wrong. According to your Bible God backed the Israelites. Well that was at least until they didn't do exactly what He required of them. They fell out of favour when they failed to massacre every man, woman and child living in the promised land (only enslaving them instead) and when one of them didn't contribute the loot they collected to the Arc of the Covenant which was put aside especially for God.
Just what God would do with a box full of gold and silver was never made clear. Having made the whole Universe from mothing but a void He could obviously have made as much gold and silver as He wanted anyway.
But still, it made the Israelites feel good when they worshipped the box.
The only redeeming features of religion come from their choices to ignore some parts of the Bible (or Koran or Torah).
Wrong. According to your Bible God backed the Israelites. Well that was at least until they didn't do exactly what He required of them. They fell out of favour when they failed to massacre every man, woman and child living in the promised land (only enslaving them instead) and when one of them didn't contribute the loot they collected to the Arc of the Covenant which was put aside especially for God.
Just what God would do with a box full of gold and silver was never made clear. Having made the whole Universe from mothing but a void He could obviously have made as much gold and silver as He wanted anyway.
But still, it made the Israelites feel good when they worshipped the box.
The only redeeming features of religion come from their choices to ignore some parts of the Bible (or Koran or Torah).
@Truthabounds. You twist on on the hook of your own words. You falsely misrepresented your position to assert that you personally knew many atheists that have converted. You then go on to give us a comprehensive list of 3(!) atheists that have changed their position - hardly a stunning, ringing endorsement!
Based upon your writing here, and the level of comprehension you exhibit about science in general and biology in particular, your own words and views betray your claim to have read and absorbed any meaningful scientific knowledge.
Lets take a look at your commentary on blood transfusion, just for a start. Whilst it is true that some infectious diseases can be spread by transfusion, to assert that it is a major vector in such transmissions is absurd. The risk of transmission of any virus from a blood transfusion is low. And you completely neglect, in your screed, to offer the risk vs reward calculation that any medical intervention or treatment is judged by - On balance, does it do more good than harm - and of course, as far as blood transfusion is concerned, the balance is massively in favour of the good. This is just one illustration about your ignorance of science in general - and you claim to have read advanced biology texts!?
Based upon your writing here, and the level of comprehension you exhibit about science in general and biology in particular, your own words and views betray your claim to have read and absorbed any meaningful scientific knowledge.
Lets take a look at your commentary on blood transfusion, just for a start. Whilst it is true that some infectious diseases can be spread by transfusion, to assert that it is a major vector in such transmissions is absurd. The risk of transmission of any virus from a blood transfusion is low. And you completely neglect, in your screed, to offer the risk vs reward calculation that any medical intervention or treatment is judged by - On balance, does it do more good than harm - and of course, as far as blood transfusion is concerned, the balance is massively in favour of the good. This is just one illustration about your ignorance of science in general - and you claim to have read advanced biology texts!?
Truthabounds, //Jesus was telling the man that he would have a resurrection, not in a heaven but to the earth, which will be restored to a Paradise.//
Nope. Sorry. I've read it again, and it doesn't say that. Funny how people believe the bits they want to believe and change the rest to suit. Incidentally, just out of interest, do you kill your disobedient children?
//Paradise. So, you know what the Bible teaches about Hell. Maybe you think you do. With respect, I say I know you don’t. //
Oh, make no mistake, I do.
//May be you don’t laugh at God, but you do hold him in derision or scorn by the very comments you make.//
I hold your God in neither derision nor scorn. His performance demands far harsher judgement. There's nothing humorous about your God.
Nope. Sorry. I've read it again, and it doesn't say that. Funny how people believe the bits they want to believe and change the rest to suit. Incidentally, just out of interest, do you kill your disobedient children?
//Paradise. So, you know what the Bible teaches about Hell. Maybe you think you do. With respect, I say I know you don’t. //
Oh, make no mistake, I do.
//May be you don’t laugh at God, but you do hold him in derision or scorn by the very comments you make.//
I hold your God in neither derision nor scorn. His performance demands far harsher judgement. There's nothing humorous about your God.
Lazy gun: Having been in the medical field I think i know what I am talking about regarding diseases, biology, transfusions etc. Does more good than harm!! That is laughable.
http://www.wddty.com/blood-transfusions.html
http://www.medifasthe...f-blood-transfusions/
http://www.seek-inn.c...ould-be-conscious-of/
Naomi: I pity you. I am not knocking your views as we are all entitled to our viewpoint being created with free will. But sadly, the day will come when we will all be accountable, both you and I.
Lazy gun: I am not twisting words. Look again and read again the phraseology in my question: I know of many atheists. - I did not say, "I know many atheists." There is a difference.
http://www.wddty.com/blood-transfusions.html
http://www.medifasthe...f-blood-transfusions/
http://www.seek-inn.c...ould-be-conscious-of/
Naomi: I pity you. I am not knocking your views as we are all entitled to our viewpoint being created with free will. But sadly, the day will come when we will all be accountable, both you and I.
Lazy gun: I am not twisting words. Look again and read again the phraseology in my question: I know of many atheists. - I did not say, "I know many atheists." There is a difference.
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