News1 min ago
For all the athiests.
127 Answers
How will you feel when you find out that there really is a God and that you have spent your life mocking him?
I know of many athiests who have spent most of their life disbelieving, and then finding out they were wrong.
What will you do?
I know of many athiests who have spent most of their life disbelieving, and then finding out they were wrong.
What will you do?
Answers
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Is this the Hertford connection, Doc?
I'm going to look silly if I'm wrong here, but isn't Hertford, to where you are known to sojourn from time to time, also the former home of (whoever wrote Biggles), and has the "famous" Biggles Museum ??
I could be talking pants here. I've just got this in the back of my head somewhere.
I'm going to look silly if I'm wrong here, but isn't Hertford, to where you are known to sojourn from time to time, also the former home of (whoever wrote Biggles), and has the "famous" Biggles Museum ??
I could be talking pants here. I've just got this in the back of my head somewhere.
Truthabounds - “How will you feel when you find out that there really is a God and that you have spent your life mocking him? ...What will you do?”
If such a day ever occurs – and believe me, it's a big 'if' – I will say to him the following...
I think you're evil. You have the ability to create an entire universe and yet you seemed incapable of convincing all mankind – your own creation – into accepting your very existence. You also failed to give your (supposed) message of love and tolerance in a coherent way. This could have saved tens of millions of lives in unnecessary religious feuds over the ages. You could have stepped in at any time and stopped it all. But you chose not to. You can cure cancer, but you chose not to. You can feed the hungry, give water to the millions of people affected by draught... but you chose not to.
You could tell the Pope that condoms are a great way of stopping the spread of AIDS and that he should endorse their use throughout the world... but you chose not to. For that matter, you can simply cure everyone of AIDS and remove HIV from existence... but you chose not to.
You could have stopped the sexual abuse of countless of children by people who claimed to be acting on behalf of you personally... but you chose not to.
You could eradicate debilitating diseases, such as motoneurons, from existence, thereby saving people from the agony and indignity of losing their quality of life in the most monstrous fashion... but you chose not to.
The list of things that God could do if only he could be bothered goes on and on. The fact that he doesn't do any of these things leads me to believe that he simply isn't there. If he is there, he is thoroughly evil and not worthy of our praise or worship.
Does that answer your question Truthabounds?
If such a day ever occurs – and believe me, it's a big 'if' – I will say to him the following...
I think you're evil. You have the ability to create an entire universe and yet you seemed incapable of convincing all mankind – your own creation – into accepting your very existence. You also failed to give your (supposed) message of love and tolerance in a coherent way. This could have saved tens of millions of lives in unnecessary religious feuds over the ages. You could have stepped in at any time and stopped it all. But you chose not to. You can cure cancer, but you chose not to. You can feed the hungry, give water to the millions of people affected by draught... but you chose not to.
You could tell the Pope that condoms are a great way of stopping the spread of AIDS and that he should endorse their use throughout the world... but you chose not to. For that matter, you can simply cure everyone of AIDS and remove HIV from existence... but you chose not to.
You could have stopped the sexual abuse of countless of children by people who claimed to be acting on behalf of you personally... but you chose not to.
You could eradicate debilitating diseases, such as motoneurons, from existence, thereby saving people from the agony and indignity of losing their quality of life in the most monstrous fashion... but you chose not to.
The list of things that God could do if only he could be bothered goes on and on. The fact that he doesn't do any of these things leads me to believe that he simply isn't there. If he is there, he is thoroughly evil and not worthy of our praise or worship.
Does that answer your question Truthabounds?
From Keyplus, //I can answer every single (alleged) contradiction.[in the Koran]//
But not necessarily truthfully, or in a way that convinces anyone else. His claim reminds me of Eric Morecambe, the pianist. He played all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order. :o)
Keyplus promises to come back today to continue his deliberations, so we can look forward to two fundamentalists - Truthabounds and Keyplus - debating the veracity of their respective fairy tales. This should be fun! Got your popcorn ready? :o)
But not necessarily truthfully, or in a way that convinces anyone else. His claim reminds me of Eric Morecambe, the pianist. He played all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order. :o)
Keyplus promises to come back today to continue his deliberations, so we can look forward to two fundamentalists - Truthabounds and Keyplus - debating the veracity of their respective fairy tales. This should be fun! Got your popcorn ready? :o)
///JJ - If there is a God, He will be forgiving.///
Someone asked Muhammad (pbuh) that what is the price of Paradise?
He replied, “There is No God but Allah”
How difficult is to believe that? Same people who left religion due to the confusions created by Trinity does not accept when pure concept of God is presented to them.
Why would someone have difficulties in believing something so simple? Reason is that once they grew and found out that Sant, tooth fairy etc did not exist as their parents told them then automatically they assumed that God did not exist either. Now why their parents told them about fictional characters is another question as parents usually like comforting their children by whatever way it could be done. My parents never told me any stories as such right from the beginning so therefore I never compared Sant, tooth fairy etc with God. And I am doing same to my kids. To your question about forgiveness, in Islam we believe that God will forgive any sins against himself once you believe in him alone (due to his love towards his creation) however he will not forgive sins (or crimes) committed against other fellow human being until you would be forgiven by them. And that is for the protection of human rights.
Now few people will have problem with word “Allah” and although there are reasons why it is Allah and no other name and I will not go into details, but if someone want to replace Arabic word with English translation “God” then do it. But most important thing is that he has to be worshipped alone.
Someone asked Muhammad (pbuh) that what is the price of Paradise?
He replied, “There is No God but Allah”
How difficult is to believe that? Same people who left religion due to the confusions created by Trinity does not accept when pure concept of God is presented to them.
Why would someone have difficulties in believing something so simple? Reason is that once they grew and found out that Sant, tooth fairy etc did not exist as their parents told them then automatically they assumed that God did not exist either. Now why their parents told them about fictional characters is another question as parents usually like comforting their children by whatever way it could be done. My parents never told me any stories as such right from the beginning so therefore I never compared Sant, tooth fairy etc with God. And I am doing same to my kids. To your question about forgiveness, in Islam we believe that God will forgive any sins against himself once you believe in him alone (due to his love towards his creation) however he will not forgive sins (or crimes) committed against other fellow human being until you would be forgiven by them. And that is for the protection of human rights.
Now few people will have problem with word “Allah” and although there are reasons why it is Allah and no other name and I will not go into details, but if someone want to replace Arabic word with English translation “God” then do it. But most important thing is that he has to be worshipped alone.
I don't mock and I don't try to take other people's faith from them, since that is what they need to get through this life, but I choose not to believe myself and logic tells me that I am right. As I have said before, there is no way an insignificant little being on an insignificant little planet can really imagine they are so important as to warrant an all seeing god is interested in them in the slightest way. No - this is it - make the most of it - we are just an unfortunate accident.
Keyplus, //I will not argue with truthabounds at all and would do what Quran says.//
Oh what a disappointment! You see, Truthabounds says he's right because his book says he is - and you say you're right because your book says you are - so who's right?
Oh well, I don't suppose we'll ever find out now. And we all came along with our popcorn too!
Oh what a disappointment! You see, Truthabounds says he's right because his book says he is - and you say you're right because your book says you are - so who's right?
Oh well, I don't suppose we'll ever find out now. And we all came along with our popcorn too!
Good evening one and all. Let the fun begin.
Naomi - I hope you have still got your popcorn?
Andy-Hughes:
The reason Jesus cried out was not because of doubt. On the face of it, it may seem that he was forsaken by his father but the prophecy in Psalm 22 v 1 was fulfilled. Jesus had not lost faith in his heavenly father. God abandoned Jesus to his enemies by taking away His protection so that Christ’s integrity might be fully tested. And by crying out as he did fulfilled the psalm 22 v 1.
Naomi: You are quite right in doubting the existence of a soul. The churches teach that a soul leaves the body at death and floats around either in pergatory, hell or goes to heaven. This is not a Bible teaching. The Bible actually teaches that hell (hades or sheol depending on whether it is Hebrew or Greek) is actually the common grave of mankind and all go there, whether you are good or bad, Christian or muslim or atheist.
Lazygun: I resent the fact that you call me a liar. I am not a liar. I know of many for example, Professor Frantisek Vyskocil of Charles University in Prague also internationally known for his research in Neurophysiology was an atheist and changed his opinion after realising there is a God.
Fred Severud was the engineer who designed Madison Square Gardens and many other US landmarks was also once an atheist.
Arthur Flew who was an atheist for well over 50 years announced that he no longer was an atheist and became a believer.
That is just 3 that I can think of without checking.
Daisy Nonna and JJ: Definition of Mock:
Verb: To tease or laugh at in a scornful or contemptuous manner.
Make something seem laughably unreal or impossible.
Make something an object of derision.
Hold up to scorn or ridicule.
On the basis of this definition, that is what most atheists do with regard to God, they do not believe themselves but they ridicule etc. those that do.
Belief in God is not blind faith, there is overwhelming evidence of God’s existence.
The apostle Paul told Christians in Rome that God’s “invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they [disbelievers] are inexcusable.” Yes, creation testifies to a Creator.
Many scientists insist that there is no God. How, then, do they explain the wonders of creation, including humankind? They attribute such marvels to evolution, a blind force based on chance. And when these learned individuals assert that evolution is a fact, they imply that only the ignorant refuse to believe it.
One way to determine whether there is a God is to apply this well-established principle ‘what is made requires a maker’. The more complicated the thing made, the more capable the maker must be.
With regard to living things, you only have to look at the cell, the DNA the complexity of it could not arise by chance.
Contrary to the opinion of some, many respected men of science do not rule out the idea of there being a God—a Great Mastermind behind the creation of the universe and man.
Birdie 1971:
Does the fact that knives have been used to murder prove that no one designed them? Is the use of jet aircraft to drop bombs in time of war evidence that they had no designer? Or is it rather the use to which these are being put that is causing grief to mankind?
Is it not true that much disease is a result of man’s own poor living habits and his spoiling of the environment for himself and others? Are not the wars fought by humans a major cause of human suffering? Is it not also true that, while millions suffer from lack of food, there is more than enough in other lands, so that one of the underlying problems is human greed? All these things give evidence, not that there is no God, but that humans are sadly misusing their God-given abilities and the earth itself.
Naomi - I hope you have still got your popcorn?
Andy-Hughes:
The reason Jesus cried out was not because of doubt. On the face of it, it may seem that he was forsaken by his father but the prophecy in Psalm 22 v 1 was fulfilled. Jesus had not lost faith in his heavenly father. God abandoned Jesus to his enemies by taking away His protection so that Christ’s integrity might be fully tested. And by crying out as he did fulfilled the psalm 22 v 1.
Naomi: You are quite right in doubting the existence of a soul. The churches teach that a soul leaves the body at death and floats around either in pergatory, hell or goes to heaven. This is not a Bible teaching. The Bible actually teaches that hell (hades or sheol depending on whether it is Hebrew or Greek) is actually the common grave of mankind and all go there, whether you are good or bad, Christian or muslim or atheist.
Lazygun: I resent the fact that you call me a liar. I am not a liar. I know of many for example, Professor Frantisek Vyskocil of Charles University in Prague also internationally known for his research in Neurophysiology was an atheist and changed his opinion after realising there is a God.
Fred Severud was the engineer who designed Madison Square Gardens and many other US landmarks was also once an atheist.
Arthur Flew who was an atheist for well over 50 years announced that he no longer was an atheist and became a believer.
That is just 3 that I can think of without checking.
Daisy Nonna and JJ: Definition of Mock:
Verb: To tease or laugh at in a scornful or contemptuous manner.
Make something seem laughably unreal or impossible.
Make something an object of derision.
Hold up to scorn or ridicule.
On the basis of this definition, that is what most atheists do with regard to God, they do not believe themselves but they ridicule etc. those that do.
Belief in God is not blind faith, there is overwhelming evidence of God’s existence.
The apostle Paul told Christians in Rome that God’s “invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they [disbelievers] are inexcusable.” Yes, creation testifies to a Creator.
Many scientists insist that there is no God. How, then, do they explain the wonders of creation, including humankind? They attribute such marvels to evolution, a blind force based on chance. And when these learned individuals assert that evolution is a fact, they imply that only the ignorant refuse to believe it.
One way to determine whether there is a God is to apply this well-established principle ‘what is made requires a maker’. The more complicated the thing made, the more capable the maker must be.
With regard to living things, you only have to look at the cell, the DNA the complexity of it could not arise by chance.
Contrary to the opinion of some, many respected men of science do not rule out the idea of there being a God—a Great Mastermind behind the creation of the universe and man.
Birdie 1971:
Does the fact that knives have been used to murder prove that no one designed them? Is the use of jet aircraft to drop bombs in time of war evidence that they had no designer? Or is it rather the use to which these are being put that is causing grief to mankind?
Is it not true that much disease is a result of man’s own poor living habits and his spoiling of the environment for himself and others? Are not the wars fought by humans a major cause of human suffering? Is it not also true that, while millions suffer from lack of food, there is more than enough in other lands, so that one of the underlying problems is human greed? All these things give evidence, not that there is no God, but that humans are sadly misusing their God-given abilities and the earth itself.
Truthabounds, After that yawn-worthy diatribe I think I've gone off my popcorn.
//I know of many athiests who have spent most of their life disbelieving, and then finding out they were wrong.//
As I said, no you don't. No one can know whether they're right or wrong until they reap their eventual reward - or otherwise. Therefore you don't know you are right and you cannot possibly know anyone who discovered he was wrong. You can only believe you are right, and you can only know people who have changed their mind about religion.
The soul: Actually, I suspect the soul exists. I don't know where you got the idea I don't. (Don't misunderstand though - I don't think it has anything to do with any God).
Hell: I know what the bible teaches, and it has quite a lot to say about hell - as does Jesus.
Heaven: Jesus words to one of those crucified with him. 'Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise'. Yes, I know. That blessed comma throws doubt on the grave thing, but let's face it, even if the comma wasn't there, the grave cannot be considered Paradise by any stretch of the imagination.
God: I don't laugh at your God. There's nothing funny about the effect that the charlatan that is the monster of Abraham has on the human psyche - or upon peace on this planet. Belief in your God creates nothing but hatred, separation, and pain to the world.
Proof: The words of Paul - or anyone else - do not constitute proof of the existence of God. Neither does nature. Clearly, once again you are exaggerating. You have no proof.
Conclusion: Obviously when examining the bible we must take into account the fact that the texts have been altered time and again to suit - and of course in the case of the New Testament, not just to suit the purposes of a new religion, but also to validate the prophecies of the old - so how are we to know what's right and what's wrong? Yep. It's a dilemma.
//I know of many athiests who have spent most of their life disbelieving, and then finding out they were wrong.//
As I said, no you don't. No one can know whether they're right or wrong until they reap their eventual reward - or otherwise. Therefore you don't know you are right and you cannot possibly know anyone who discovered he was wrong. You can only believe you are right, and you can only know people who have changed their mind about religion.
The soul: Actually, I suspect the soul exists. I don't know where you got the idea I don't. (Don't misunderstand though - I don't think it has anything to do with any God).
Hell: I know what the bible teaches, and it has quite a lot to say about hell - as does Jesus.
Heaven: Jesus words to one of those crucified with him. 'Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise'. Yes, I know. That blessed comma throws doubt on the grave thing, but let's face it, even if the comma wasn't there, the grave cannot be considered Paradise by any stretch of the imagination.
God: I don't laugh at your God. There's nothing funny about the effect that the charlatan that is the monster of Abraham has on the human psyche - or upon peace on this planet. Belief in your God creates nothing but hatred, separation, and pain to the world.
Proof: The words of Paul - or anyone else - do not constitute proof of the existence of God. Neither does nature. Clearly, once again you are exaggerating. You have no proof.
Conclusion: Obviously when examining the bible we must take into account the fact that the texts have been altered time and again to suit - and of course in the case of the New Testament, not just to suit the purposes of a new religion, but also to validate the prophecies of the old - so how are we to know what's right and what's wrong? Yep. It's a dilemma.
@Truthabounds - The usual dissimulation and circular arguments.
1. I did not call you a liar - thats your own guilty conscience talking. I said I did not believe you. The implication of your original comment was that you personally had contact with many atheists who have since converted. What you actually mean is that your little cult have assembled a list of 3 (!) names of atheists that have converted - big deal, and a big, big difference from the impression you originally gave that you personally knew these many converting atheists.
2. Circular logic - Your proofs for the existence of god derive from your book of myth - thats not proof, thats just repeating a fable!
The other strand of your argument centres around complexity, which is effectively the argument of Intelligent Design - and we all know what bunk that is. Just because you cannot envision a molecule such as DNA arising from chance says more about your scientific and mathematic comprehension than it does about the reality of probability and the tendency of molecules to create, naturally, more complex structures.
Go read some biology primers (infant school level will do) and educate yourself. Complexity does not automatically equate to some sort of supernatural designed, sticking molecules together like blocks of lego. It has been shown, time after time after time, that natural selection random mutation, chaos theory and mathematics can produce the breathtaking complexity that creates the majesty that surrounds us today.
1. I did not call you a liar - thats your own guilty conscience talking. I said I did not believe you. The implication of your original comment was that you personally had contact with many atheists who have since converted. What you actually mean is that your little cult have assembled a list of 3 (!) names of atheists that have converted - big deal, and a big, big difference from the impression you originally gave that you personally knew these many converting atheists.
2. Circular logic - Your proofs for the existence of god derive from your book of myth - thats not proof, thats just repeating a fable!
The other strand of your argument centres around complexity, which is effectively the argument of Intelligent Design - and we all know what bunk that is. Just because you cannot envision a molecule such as DNA arising from chance says more about your scientific and mathematic comprehension than it does about the reality of probability and the tendency of molecules to create, naturally, more complex structures.
Go read some biology primers (infant school level will do) and educate yourself. Complexity does not automatically equate to some sort of supernatural designed, sticking molecules together like blocks of lego. It has been shown, time after time after time, that natural selection random mutation, chaos theory and mathematics can produce the breathtaking complexity that creates the majesty that surrounds us today.
