What's It All About?

[Atheist]

Sorry for a dumb question, but can anyone explain to me what is the essence of the issue about the trans question? Why is Ms Rowling so passionate about it?

I hope for a calm explanation rather than an attack.

Here’s hoping...

[Ellipsis]

Not all women are the same. Not all men are the same. Not all trans women are the same. Not all trans men are the same.

Hopefully, this much is obvious. But, if so, why do some treat all trans women the same?

[jackthehat]

I treat them all as men because, well, they are all men. Although, if anyone in Scotland wants to report me for saying that, it's a little uncertain whether Police Scotland will issue an International Arrest Warrant but if they do, I hope to find myself on the same prison-wing as JKR.

I also rail against the industry which has grown up advocating for, and mutilating children and young people.

[Rosetta]

I note that that the large propotion of those on this thread who imply  " whats all the fuss  about?" are  men, apart from clare who is  a trans woman.

I would take a bet that a large proportion  of women, when asked, do not want men, in their women only spaces and that includes trans women  who still have their male bits

[Canary42]

Nearly thirty years ago, a guy who worked where I did took the trans route.

Our employer was very concerned about the possible reactions and we were all given a briefing as to how to behave towards this new woman.

It is a very difficult situation to handle - many of the women in the office raised the toilet issue, and claimed they felt uncomfortable when the ex-man encountered them there.

However "unreasonable" you may or may not think they were, one does have to recognise their  feelings as well as those of the trans guy.

He eventually left, whether as a result of his change or not, is unknown.  

But having known and been a work colleague of such a person does tend to alter your perception of the "problem".

[Hopkirk]

The biggest problem I see isn't the trans 'women', it's the predatory males who abuse the system to get close to women. 

I don't want my wife and daughter put at risk by this.

[naomi24]

What's it all about?

[Canary42]

Yes Hoppy, I can see that.  The guy I mentioned had to go through a very rigorous and extensive vetting to show he was genuine, but I guess the sort of people you refer to are the very ones who are too cunning for the vetters to see through.  A bit like the villains who hoodwink Parole Boards.

[Arksided]

I hope it doesn't come to the point where one has to go into female toilets making sure my neices are ok... I prefer stood at the door to be honest. holding an handbag. 

[jno]

naomi, it's a serious question in a serious section. I don't see any call to impugn anyone's motives.

[Canary42]

The telegraph view, courtesy of Instagram

https://ibb.co/FJSDj0h ;

 

[Canary42]

Bloody links going wrong again. Lets go for a retry.

 

 

https://ibb.co/FJSDj0h

 

 

 

[naomi24]

Experience tends to elicit cynicism, Jno.  My apologies Atheist.  

[naomi24]

I agree with every word jackthehat has posted.  Well said.

[barry1010]

A predatory male intent on harming a woman or child isn't going to be put off by a 'ladies only' sign.   Dressing as a woman just to get in to the ladies is a bit of a faff.

 

[Redhelen72]

I don't care what someone wants to present themselves as, it is none of my business who loves who, who wants to be make and who wants to be female.

[saintpeter48]

I just don't understand why there cannot be sports for men to compete, sports for women to compete, sports for trans men to compete and sports for trans women to compete, pitching men against women is totally unfair imo.

 

[Old_Geezer]

It is always wrong to encourage lying and making it society's norm. Too much of that goes on these days.

 

Then again, you must have read all the reports of men claiming that they are women really, demanding access to single sex spaces, thus negating safeguards in some areas and having unfair advanges in others.

 

Plus there is the more obvious moral issue of helping those in need. If someone has a problem accepting reality then society should try to get them over that mental issue, not abuse them by encouraging their fantasy. (Perhaps even mutilating their physical body to try to support their delusion.) That seems to be a modern day practice comparable to the attractions of Bedlam for the morbidly entertained in times gone by.

 

There's three issues just off the top of my head. Why wouldn't any sane individual get passionate over being forced by law to not speak out on these insane issues, but to either stay silent or support them ?

[ichkeria]

Two main issues: one how do you reconcile the undoubted fact that some people genuinely feel they have been born with the wrong gender, with the undeniable physical reality.

This matters for two reasons mainly as mentioned: the "safe spaces for women" argument" and also the "fairness in sport" one. Both are valid. But so is the trans issue. It gets to the heart of how we identify and how we want to protect ourselves, so it is scarcely surprising it generates strong feelings.

[Auntypoll]

The sports issue would be easily solved. Those sports separated by gender were done so because of the physical differences between the two not how the participants perceived themselves. These sports could be divided by birth gender only,purely on the fact males and females develop muscle mass and strength differently, regardless of how they feel in their heads. 
 

The male female spaces are much more of a challenge . This could be addressed by having separate cubicles for sports facilities rather than the open areas that I don't think anyone likes, and non specific gender toilet cubicles which I've seen in universities and some shopping malls. This is not pandering to a minority, it's making places safer for everyone.

[mushroom25]

// pitching men against women is totally unfair imo. //

maybe, but this is probably where the end game will take us - there will not be segregated sport, just "sport". if those born "x-x" find they cannot compete against those born "x-y", they will have the option to train harder.