Quizzes & Puzzles2 mins ago
Political Misrepresentation?
71 Answers
The more I study current affairs and history, the more I've come to realise something. The political left are probably the most dangerous people in the whole of human history and yet it is the political right that is constantly labelled as dangerous, violent and intolerant in the media.
This seems odd to me as it is those on the left of the political spectrum who enslave people and kill the most. The Nazis for example, are invariably described by most people as 'far right' yet they were National Socialists (ie. the far left). Their policies included (but were not limited to): free public health, re-nationalisation of big industry, guaranteeing workers holidays and other rights, promoting healthy living, environmentalism, removal of the class system, etc.
The communist regime in Russia was about as far left as can be imagined and they killed around 100 million of their own people. Benito Mussolini, the Italian leader, more often than not is described as a fascist and far right-winger. Yet he, like Hitler, believed in the (original) concept of totalitarianism – the idea that the state will care from you from cradle to grave (as opposed to the negative definition of 'totalitarianism' today that means absolute control by the state) and from whom Hitler copied many of his left-wing ideas – some of which are listed above.
Fascism and Nazism are always described (quite rightly in my opinion) as despicable, violent and ugly political ideologies and yet they are both demonstrably left-wing in nature.
Why are those on the right of the political spectrum tarred with the brush of intolerance and totalitarianism when it is those on the left with their hand on the handle?
This seems odd to me as it is those on the left of the political spectrum who enslave people and kill the most. The Nazis for example, are invariably described by most people as 'far right' yet they were National Socialists (ie. the far left). Their policies included (but were not limited to): free public health, re-nationalisation of big industry, guaranteeing workers holidays and other rights, promoting healthy living, environmentalism, removal of the class system, etc.
The communist regime in Russia was about as far left as can be imagined and they killed around 100 million of their own people. Benito Mussolini, the Italian leader, more often than not is described as a fascist and far right-winger. Yet he, like Hitler, believed in the (original) concept of totalitarianism – the idea that the state will care from you from cradle to grave (as opposed to the negative definition of 'totalitarianism' today that means absolute control by the state) and from whom Hitler copied many of his left-wing ideas – some of which are listed above.
Fascism and Nazism are always described (quite rightly in my opinion) as despicable, violent and ugly political ideologies and yet they are both demonstrably left-wing in nature.
Why are those on the right of the political spectrum tarred with the brush of intolerance and totalitarianism when it is those on the left with their hand on the handle?
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Because this planet we inhabit is spherical, the further to the left anything moves it ends up on the right, or as Isaac Newton pointed out; if I could throw a stone hard enough it would hit me on the back of my head.
Being labelled as 'right wing' doesn't offend me exactly, but I don't like the term because it is imprecise, if not meaningless, I prefer to be labelled (if I must be) as 'conservative', which denotes a stance rather than an ideology.
Being labelled as 'right wing' doesn't offend me exactly, but I don't like the term because it is imprecise, if not meaningless, I prefer to be labelled (if I must be) as 'conservative', which denotes a stance rather than an ideology.
Old_Geezer - “... For example, both Fascism and Nazism are clearly of the far right...”
Are they? It would seem to me that they are from the far left. That's what I stated in my original question.
Why are we told constantly that Nazis (and by extension, fascism) are far right when – for all practical purposes - all the policies of the national socialists (Nazis) and fascists appear to chime with left wing politics.
Are they? It would seem to me that they are from the far left. That's what I stated in my original question.
Why are we told constantly that Nazis (and by extension, fascism) are far right when – for all practical purposes - all the policies of the national socialists (Nazis) and fascists appear to chime with left wing politics.
Mikey4444 - “... Mally is right....its about extremism.”
I don't deny that it is about extremism. It is demonstrably about extremism. That's not what I am saying.
What it is about is being told by the media the world over that it is right-wing extremism that lead to the Nazis and Fascism. What I am saying is that it actually comes from the political left-wing. With all due respect, do try and read what I actually write.
I don't deny that it is about extremism. It is demonstrably about extremism. That's not what I am saying.
What it is about is being told by the media the world over that it is right-wing extremism that lead to the Nazis and Fascism. What I am saying is that it actually comes from the political left-wing. With all due respect, do try and read what I actually write.
I think the general idea is that there are elements of 'left' and 'right' in all brands of political extremism of the totalitarian variety. At those extremes I am not sure it even makes sense to talk about 'left' and 'right' wing. If it floats your boat to brand all extremism as 'left wing' then so be it :-)
But what about the tendencies which are not quite at those extremes? At what point do the parties of the right suddenly 'go left' down your ideological wormhole?
But what about the tendencies which are not quite at those extremes? At what point do the parties of the right suddenly 'go left' down your ideological wormhole?
Mikey4444 - “... I did read what you had written, but its basic premise was deeply flawed, if you really think that Hitler and Mussolini were in some way "left wing"”
If you read it then you mustn't have understood it. It's quite simple really. Hitler's policies were extremely left wing. His party was the National Socialists. Socialists. You see? Socialism is the very essence of left wing politics. Once again I shall list those things that both Hitler's party and Mussolini's party were in favour of and were implementing in their respective countries:
* free public health
* re-nationalisation of big industry
* guaranteeing workers holidays and other rights
* promoting healthy living
* environmentalism
* removal of the class system
None of those policies can be accurately ascribed to the political right. All of them reside on the political left.
So I ask again – given that Hitler was demonstrably left wing, being the head of the National Socialists (have I mentioned that?), why is he invariably described as being right wing?
I suspect I already know the answer but I'd like you (and others) to address it rather than avoid it.
If you read it then you mustn't have understood it. It's quite simple really. Hitler's policies were extremely left wing. His party was the National Socialists. Socialists. You see? Socialism is the very essence of left wing politics. Once again I shall list those things that both Hitler's party and Mussolini's party were in favour of and were implementing in their respective countries:
* free public health
* re-nationalisation of big industry
* guaranteeing workers holidays and other rights
* promoting healthy living
* environmentalism
* removal of the class system
None of those policies can be accurately ascribed to the political right. All of them reside on the political left.
So I ask again – given that Hitler was demonstrably left wing, being the head of the National Socialists (have I mentioned that?), why is he invariably described as being right wing?
I suspect I already know the answer but I'd like you (and others) to address it rather than avoid it.
Ichkeria - “... the general idea is that there are elements of 'left' and 'right' in all brands of political extremism of the totalitarian variety...”
I cannot disagree with that. By the way, 'totalitarianism' was a phrase coined by Mussolini himself as I mentioned in my original question. However, you have deliberately sidetracked this discussion into talking about political extremes when my question was not about that. Rather like Mikey4444, you appear to be deliberately avoiding confronting my actual question and instead have invented your own interpretation of it (ie. the well-worn straw-man fallacy) to save yourself from confronting a rather ugly truth about the political left.
As for your comment, “... At what point do the parties of the right suddenly 'go left' down your ideological wormhole?”, I cannot possibly say since the question itself is utterly absurd and has no bearing on the discussion.
But you carry on obfuscating the issue old bean – whatever floats your boat.
I cannot disagree with that. By the way, 'totalitarianism' was a phrase coined by Mussolini himself as I mentioned in my original question. However, you have deliberately sidetracked this discussion into talking about political extremes when my question was not about that. Rather like Mikey4444, you appear to be deliberately avoiding confronting my actual question and instead have invented your own interpretation of it (ie. the well-worn straw-man fallacy) to save yourself from confronting a rather ugly truth about the political left.
As for your comment, “... At what point do the parties of the right suddenly 'go left' down your ideological wormhole?”, I cannot possibly say since the question itself is utterly absurd and has no bearing on the discussion.
But you carry on obfuscating the issue old bean – whatever floats your boat.
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The Nazi party adopted policies from both the left and the right, and where you want to put them depends on which policies you see as most important. I am slightly to the right myself, but for me it is the policy of scientific racism, which I guess in the op falls into the '(but were not limited to)' category, that puts them firmly to the right of where I sit. I don't think Hitler really wanted the workers to have control of the state either but was an authoritarian who wanted power for himself. Interesting to read others' views though.
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