Teenage Boy Killed In Samurai Sword...
News0 min ago
Political Misrepresentation?
71 Answers
The more I study current affairs and history, the more I've come to realise something. The political left are probably the most dangerous people in the whole of human history and yet it is the political right that is constantly labelled as dangerous, violent and intolerant in the media.
This seems odd to me as it is those on the left of the political spectrum who enslave people and kill the most. The Nazis for example, are invariably described by most people as 'far right' yet they were National Socialists (ie. the far left). Their policies included (but were not limited to): free public health, re-nationalisation of big industry, guaranteeing workers holidays and other rights, promoting healthy living, environmentalism, removal of the class system, etc.
The communist regime in Russia was about as far left as can be imagined and they killed around 100 million of their own people. Benito Mussolini, the Italian leader, more often than not is described as a fascist and far right-winger. Yet he, like Hitler, believed in the (original) concept of totalitarianism – the idea that the state will care from you from cradle to grave (as opposed to the negative definition of 'totalitarianism' today that means absolute control by the state) and from whom Hitler copied many of his left-wing ideas – some of which are listed above.
Fascism and Nazism are always described (quite rightly in my opinion) as despicable, violent and ugly political ideologies and yet they are both demonstrably left-wing in nature.
Why are those on the right of the political spectrum tarred with the brush of intolerance and totalitarianism when it is those on the left with their hand on the handle?
This seems odd to me as it is those on the left of the political spectrum who enslave people and kill the most. The Nazis for example, are invariably described by most people as 'far right' yet they were National Socialists (ie. the far left). Their policies included (but were not limited to): free public health, re-nationalisation of big industry, guaranteeing workers holidays and other rights, promoting healthy living, environmentalism, removal of the class system, etc.
The communist regime in Russia was about as far left as can be imagined and they killed around 100 million of their own people. Benito Mussolini, the Italian leader, more often than not is described as a fascist and far right-winger. Yet he, like Hitler, believed in the (original) concept of totalitarianism – the idea that the state will care from you from cradle to grave (as opposed to the negative definition of 'totalitarianism' today that means absolute control by the state) and from whom Hitler copied many of his left-wing ideas – some of which are listed above.
Fascism and Nazism are always described (quite rightly in my opinion) as despicable, violent and ugly political ideologies and yet they are both demonstrably left-wing in nature.
Why are those on the right of the political spectrum tarred with the brush of intolerance and totalitarianism when it is those on the left with their hand on the handle?
Answers
Best Answer
No best answer has yet been selected by birdie1971. Once a best answer has been selected, it will be shown here.
For more on marking an answer as the "Best Answer", please visit our FAQ.
I don't really understand how the claim that the Nazis were any kind of "left" holds serious water. It will probably take a lot more effort to refute birdie's claims than that but I did want to take issue with his drawing attention to the name of the party: "Nazi" may stand for "National Socialism", but wasn't that title just a front? Rather like how all the communist dictatorships of the world tend to call themselves "Democratic People's Republic", or something.
No reputable historian or political scientist I'm aware of would describe the Nazis as even remotely left-wing -- although people of the right, who have a vested interest in saying so (ie, in distancing themselves from Nazism and fascism in general) might make this claim.
No reputable historian or political scientist I'm aware of would describe the Nazis as even remotely left-wing -- although people of the right, who have a vested interest in saying so (ie, in distancing themselves from Nazism and fascism in general) might make this claim.
Hitler outlawed hunting with dogs (which still stands today) and initiated the creation (by Ferdinand Porsche) of the Volkswagen (the people's car)
I typed the above and then looked and found this link
http://
I suppose most of these would meet the approval of Guardian readers.
I typed the above and then looked and found this link
http://
I suppose most of these would meet the approval of Guardian readers.
Gromit - “You seem very confused. If you think the Nazis were far left you have a screw loose.”
Do I? How so? Please enlighten me.
Naomi beat me to it. You're saying that I'm mistaken about the National Socialists (Nazis) being left wing but you offer no further explanation. Simply saying something is so does not a cogent argument make.
This, despite my listing of many of the things the National Socialists (Nazis) were promoting and implementing. All of those things are demonstrably left wing and yet you and others keep repeating over and over again that the National Socialists (Nazis) were on the far right of the political spectrum. Why? How can the National Socialists in Germany conceivably be described as right wing when all their policies are associated with the political left?
The National Socialists (Nazis) represented the far left. If you believe otherwise, demonstrate it with logical proofs and evidence. I'm all ears. I have no axe to grind. I couldn't actually care less whether Hitler or Mussolini were left or right wing. They were both monstrous characters. My beef is why they are deliberately misrepresented as being on the right of political spectrum when they both clearly on the left.
If I'm so wrong, show me why.
Do I? How so? Please enlighten me.
Naomi beat me to it. You're saying that I'm mistaken about the National Socialists (Nazis) being left wing but you offer no further explanation. Simply saying something is so does not a cogent argument make.
This, despite my listing of many of the things the National Socialists (Nazis) were promoting and implementing. All of those things are demonstrably left wing and yet you and others keep repeating over and over again that the National Socialists (Nazis) were on the far right of the political spectrum. Why? How can the National Socialists in Germany conceivably be described as right wing when all their policies are associated with the political left?
The National Socialists (Nazis) represented the far left. If you believe otherwise, demonstrate it with logical proofs and evidence. I'm all ears. I have no axe to grind. I couldn't actually care less whether Hitler or Mussolini were left or right wing. They were both monstrous characters. My beef is why they are deliberately misrepresented as being on the right of political spectrum when they both clearly on the left.
If I'm so wrong, show me why.
Jim360 - “... I did want to take issue with his drawing attention to the name of the party: "Nazi" may stand for "National Socialism", but wasn't that title just a front? Rather like how all the communist dictatorships of the world tend to call themselves "Democratic People's Republic", or something...”
No. It wasn't “just a front”. Read some history. Hitler was a socialist. His feet were firmly planted on the left of the political spectrum.
Jim “... No reputable historian or political scientist I'm aware of would describe the Nazis as even remotely left-wing -- although people of the right, who have a vested interest in saying so (ie, in distancing themselves from Nazism and fascism in general) might make this claim...”
Interesting hypothesis. An alternative hypothesis would be, “... although people of the left [of which Hitler was a proponent], who have a vested interest in saying so (ie, in distancing themselves from Nazism and fascism in general) might make this claim...”.
In a nutshell, the left are so determined to distance themselves from violent totalitarian left-wing politics that they branded one of their own 'right wing'. And the rest is history.
It worked. Everyone now thinks of Hitler and Fascism as right wing when they are actually left.
No. It wasn't “just a front”. Read some history. Hitler was a socialist. His feet were firmly planted on the left of the political spectrum.
Jim “... No reputable historian or political scientist I'm aware of would describe the Nazis as even remotely left-wing -- although people of the right, who have a vested interest in saying so (ie, in distancing themselves from Nazism and fascism in general) might make this claim...”
Interesting hypothesis. An alternative hypothesis would be, “... although people of the left [of which Hitler was a proponent], who have a vested interest in saying so (ie, in distancing themselves from Nazism and fascism in general) might make this claim...”.
In a nutshell, the left are so determined to distance themselves from violent totalitarian left-wing politics that they branded one of their own 'right wing'. And the rest is history.
It worked. Everyone now thinks of Hitler and Fascism as right wing when they are actually left.
Jim360 -
I see you offer not one defence of your position. Not one. You simply feign indignation.
No one so far has been able to refute (or even cast doubt) my central argument – that both Nazism and Fascism are left wing in origin. They are and continue to be intolerant left wing ideas, enforced by threats, intimidation and ultimately violence.
We have seen very recently the violent demonstrations in the USA against Donald Trump's election. These are intolerant, violent, left wing individuals who – when asked – love democracy when the person they vote for gets in but despise it when the vote doesn't go their way. The left wing always descends into violence when it doesn't get what it wants.
The really depressing thing though is the main stream media. It is infested with the political left. Some recent studies have suggested that more than 90% of people who work in the television and radio media lean towards the left. Hardly surprising then that there is a perpetual drip, drip, drip of left wing bias over the airwaves that has lead otherwise rational people to believe in a false reality. They would have us believe that Hitler, Mussolini and Fascists in general are on the political right when in fact they on the left. Many, many people have accepted this falsehood and regurgitate it unquestioningly when asked about it.
You appear to be yet another automaton Jim. I'm not asking you to, “read some history”. I'm asking you look at the evidence and to think for yourself.
Is that such a bad thing to recommend to someone?
I see you offer not one defence of your position. Not one. You simply feign indignation.
No one so far has been able to refute (or even cast doubt) my central argument – that both Nazism and Fascism are left wing in origin. They are and continue to be intolerant left wing ideas, enforced by threats, intimidation and ultimately violence.
We have seen very recently the violent demonstrations in the USA against Donald Trump's election. These are intolerant, violent, left wing individuals who – when asked – love democracy when the person they vote for gets in but despise it when the vote doesn't go their way. The left wing always descends into violence when it doesn't get what it wants.
The really depressing thing though is the main stream media. It is infested with the political left. Some recent studies have suggested that more than 90% of people who work in the television and radio media lean towards the left. Hardly surprising then that there is a perpetual drip, drip, drip of left wing bias over the airwaves that has lead otherwise rational people to believe in a false reality. They would have us believe that Hitler, Mussolini and Fascists in general are on the political right when in fact they on the left. Many, many people have accepted this falsehood and regurgitate it unquestioningly when asked about it.
You appear to be yet another automaton Jim. I'm not asking you to, “read some history”. I'm asking you look at the evidence and to think for yourself.
Is that such a bad thing to recommend to someone?
-- answer removed --
"chkeria - “... I don't really see the point of all this anyway...”
Of course you don't. That's why you've repeatedly tried to derail this thread with vague notions of extremism when that wasn't an issue in this particular debate. Either you don't understand the question or you are an apologist for dishonesty. "
Vague notions of extremism? Surely extremism is what this is all about??
You ask a question about "intolerance and totalitarianism" which led me, perhaps mistakenly, to think that those topics might be relevant :-)
But on "left and right", what of the "leftists" who protest, sometimes violently, against groups like the BNP, EDL, Britain First, etc?? Are you saying that these groups are really left wing, and that the "leftists" should be on their side and supporting them? What of the KKK who offer their (unsolicited) support to Donald Trump? Are they actually lefties in funny white hats?
Of course you don't. That's why you've repeatedly tried to derail this thread with vague notions of extremism when that wasn't an issue in this particular debate. Either you don't understand the question or you are an apologist for dishonesty. "
Vague notions of extremism? Surely extremism is what this is all about??
You ask a question about "intolerance and totalitarianism" which led me, perhaps mistakenly, to think that those topics might be relevant :-)
But on "left and right", what of the "leftists" who protest, sometimes violently, against groups like the BNP, EDL, Britain First, etc?? Are you saying that these groups are really left wing, and that the "leftists" should be on their side and supporting them? What of the KKK who offer their (unsolicited) support to Donald Trump? Are they actually lefties in funny white hats?
Ichkeria - “... Vague notions of extremism? Surely extremism is what this is all about??...”
No. It's really about the use of the English language and about definitions of words and their meaning and why the main stream media are insanely and ludicrously biased against describing fascists and Nazi accurately. That's what it's about. It's about the use and abuse of language that allows lies to be propagated by the likes of yourself.
It is about why the main stream media repeatedly and disingenuously label fascists and Nazis as right wing when both are in fact left wing ideals and notions. Fascism was created by the LEFT – Mussolini - and brought into violent and stark focus by Adolph Hitler, another LEFT wing political idealist. Both of these individuals were clearly on the left wing of politics.
Understand? I doubt it. There is nothing more difficult than trying to make someone see something they don't want to see. The zealots of this world are blind to anything outside of their own tiny little minds. They see racism where none exists. They see sexism where none exists. And they mistake left wing political views for right political views and vica versa. Clueless cretins all.
I'm not sure I can make it clearer than that.
At the risk of asking too many questions at once, let's concentrate one one in particular. Given that Fascism, as defined by Mussolini, was created by him and the fact that he was on the far political LEFT, how can he be legitimately described in any other way than being on the political left? People like you and the main stream media always describe fascism as being a left wing creation but the reality is the complete opposite.
Please enlighten me.
No. It's really about the use of the English language and about definitions of words and their meaning and why the main stream media are insanely and ludicrously biased against describing fascists and Nazi accurately. That's what it's about. It's about the use and abuse of language that allows lies to be propagated by the likes of yourself.
It is about why the main stream media repeatedly and disingenuously label fascists and Nazis as right wing when both are in fact left wing ideals and notions. Fascism was created by the LEFT – Mussolini - and brought into violent and stark focus by Adolph Hitler, another LEFT wing political idealist. Both of these individuals were clearly on the left wing of politics.
Understand? I doubt it. There is nothing more difficult than trying to make someone see something they don't want to see. The zealots of this world are blind to anything outside of their own tiny little minds. They see racism where none exists. They see sexism where none exists. And they mistake left wing political views for right political views and vica versa. Clueless cretins all.
I'm not sure I can make it clearer than that.
At the risk of asking too many questions at once, let's concentrate one one in particular. Given that Fascism, as defined by Mussolini, was created by him and the fact that he was on the far political LEFT, how can he be legitimately described in any other way than being on the political left? People like you and the main stream media always describe fascism as being a left wing creation but the reality is the complete opposite.
Please enlighten me.
Damn. It was inevitable that it'd drop the ball sooner or later when debating binary subjects such as the political left and right.
The last quote should have read, “... People like you and the main stream media always describe fascism as being a *right* wing creation but the reality is the complete opposite...”
The last quote should have read, “... People like you and the main stream media always describe fascism as being a *right* wing creation but the reality is the complete opposite...”
Ichkeria - “... Are you saying Hitler was not a racist and that that is just a figment of the mainstream media?...”
Oh. My. God.
Are you really that imbecilic?
Are you even reading what I am writing?
Hitler was a racist. He clearly was. He was clearly and demonstrably a racist. And he was also unequivocally LEFT wing. Get it? He was a LEFT wing racist. Do you understand that concept? Does it compute with you?
L-E-F-T.
And yet, he is always and invariably described as being right wing. Please, for the love of God, tell me you understand that.
Oh. My. God.
Are you really that imbecilic?
Are you even reading what I am writing?
Hitler was a racist. He clearly was. He was clearly and demonstrably a racist. And he was also unequivocally LEFT wing. Get it? He was a LEFT wing racist. Do you understand that concept? Does it compute with you?
L-E-F-T.
And yet, he is always and invariably described as being right wing. Please, for the love of God, tell me you understand that.
I understand that YOU think that - that doesn't make it true - however loudly or often you trumpet it.
Hitler was a Right wing Fascist Racist demagogue - the (il)logical extension of moderate conservatism
Stalin was a Left wing Communist Racist demagogue - the equally (il)logical reductio ad absurdum of moderate socialism
The fact that they were both evil, murdering, dicatators does not mean that Fascism/Communism (or Left/Right) are the same thing - it just doesn't.
Hitler was a Right wing Fascist Racist demagogue - the (il)logical extension of moderate conservatism
Stalin was a Left wing Communist Racist demagogue - the equally (il)logical reductio ad absurdum of moderate socialism
The fact that they were both evil, murdering, dicatators does not mean that Fascism/Communism (or Left/Right) are the same thing - it just doesn't.
Sunny-dave - “....Hitler was a Right wing Fascist Racist demagogue - the (il)logical extension of moderate conservatism...”
If you're right then prove it to me. Shown me the evidence. Show me why Hitler was right wing when all his policies were on the political left. Come on. Do it.
Merely stating that Hitler was right wing (because, “everyone knows it”) does not a cogent argument make.
Everything the National Socialists did (ie. the NAZIS, aka., the political LEFT) was in the name of LEFT wing politics. The fact that he was an extremist is irrelevant to my central question.
If you're right then prove it to me. Shown me the evidence. Show me why Hitler was right wing when all his policies were on the political left. Come on. Do it.
Merely stating that Hitler was right wing (because, “everyone knows it”) does not a cogent argument make.
Everything the National Socialists did (ie. the NAZIS, aka., the political LEFT) was in the name of LEFT wing politics. The fact that he was an extremist is irrelevant to my central question.
"The zealots of this world are blind to anything outside of their own tiny little minds. They see racism where none exists"
Hence my suggestion that you didn't think Hitler was a racist.
However there is plainly no point in debating with you.
I suggest you relax, enjoy the New Year celebrations if you can, and I will leave you to your views, which you are perfectly entitled to hold.
Hence my suggestion that you didn't think Hitler was a racist.
However there is plainly no point in debating with you.
I suggest you relax, enjoy the New Year celebrations if you can, and I will leave you to your views, which you are perfectly entitled to hold.
I know, ichkeria, I know.
I'll just post one link to a detailed demolition of the "Hitler was Left Wing" myth and them I'm going back to quieter waters.
http://
I'll just post one link to a detailed demolition of the "Hitler was Left Wing" myth and them I'm going back to quieter waters.
http://
Latest Posts
ChatterBank7 mins ago
ChatterBank10 mins ago
Jokes12 mins ago
ChatterBank13 mins ago
Crosswords18 mins ago
Related Questions
Sorry, we can't find any related questions. Try using the search bar at the top of the page to search for some keywords, or choose a topic and submit your own question.