where are you?

[swedeheart]

Often you'll hear Britons say something like they will be going to Europe for the summer. If you don't define yourselves as part of Europe, which continent do you identify with??? Not trying to pick a fight here, I just genuinely don't understand. Sure you're an island (or several) but it still seems so odd to me every time I hear a statement such as the above. Don't you think of yourselves as Europeans?

[jackthehat]

Not really, swedeheart.
I think many identify theselves as English/Scottish/Welsh/Irish/Cornish (etc) first, British second.............and European only when the thumbscrews are brought out :o)

[TheOtherHalf]

Hi Swedey. I dont really think of myself as European but if asked where Im going on holiday I wouldnt just say Europe, I would say the country. Surely that makes more sense as people will only ask again "Whereabouts ???" wouldnt they ?

[rowanwitch]

hey I'm not even willing to be British I'm English Europe is that interesting place across the channel where the food is better...

[Theranged]

No we're a unique bunch here in the UK. Not European but in Europe. We're a Riddle wrapped in an Enigma, shrouded in mystery

[alexanderd]

english first, british second, european never we werent given a choice

[askyourgran]

I never thought myself as being European, Europe to me is the other side of the English Channel and I don't feel particularly happy being lumped in with the French and Germans.

[swedeheart]

Yep that's pretty much what I suspected, jackthehat. But tell me this, if a Briton reads the Wikipedia list of European countries, does she/he think of ALL OF THE OTHER members as European - just not Britain?

'Twas but an example, TheOtherHalf (I nearly wrote TheOtherHat, having just written 'jackthehat', ha ha) and I see what you mean but nonetheless you do hear that sort of thing quite often - don't you?

You said it rowanwitch, I didn't ;-)

[swedeheart]

"weren't given a choice"?

[alexanderd]

we werent offered a referendum on whether we wanted to join the European Union so most of us are anti-Europe

[jackthehat]

When I see a list of european countries, I automatically think of their individual 'sovereign' (if you like) status......and that is fairly swiftly followed by wondering why they appear to be so willing to surrender so much autonomy to a 'federal europe'.
I appreciate that the continent of europe is a different animal from a 'federal europe' but to many of us living on these few islands it's pretty much the same..........

[swedeheart]

Yes I was talking about the actual continent - I should have been clearer.

[bednobs]

tbh i think it has a lot to do with being an island nation

[lardhelmet]

I'm definitely not European. English yes, British at a push, but European? Nooooooo...

[swedeheart]

Thanks ABers, it has been clarifying. In a fashion.
I appreciate the honesty in your replies, as it has made it easier for me to understand this usage.

[fredpuli47]

Swedeheart, it was only in the 1930s that English people here stopped calling Britain 'England' as a matter of course. Old habits die hard. Nelson's famous signal at Trafalgar ,in 1805,was 'England expects....' not 'Britain expects...' Americans, of course, often say 'England' for 'Britain' still.

So it may take a while for us to stop thinking of Europe as somewhere over the English Channel!. However, taking your example, I don't think we are thinking politicallly or nationally when we say Europe. We mean what , in full, would be expressed as 'mainland Europe' to distinguish it from Britain or Ireland , The term 'Europe' , in this context, seems to have supplanted 'the continent', the favoured term of my parent's generation. We say 'We are going to Europe for our holidays' where they would have said 'We are going to the continent..'.

[Quizmonster]

I agree with the last couple of sentences in Fred's reply above; the holiday destination was always "the continent". To be honest, though, I don't believe I have ever heard anyone say "Europe" rather than a specific country in that context. Perhaps I need to get out more.

I have to tell you one of my favourite stories about the Battle of Trafalgar, in light of Fred's second sentence. The Royal Navy at the time was, of course, the British navy and not the English navy and had been for a century. Three of the British battle fleet's 27 vessels were commanded by Scotsmen and large numbers of the ordinary sailors were Scots...as well as lots of other nationalities, including three Frenchmen!
When the "England expects" signal was hoisted, one Scot turned to a compatriot and asked, "Why is the Admiral just speaking to the English?" His friend replied, "Och, he kens fine we Jocks'll dae wir duty. WE dinna need remindin'!"

Perhaps my story indicates that lots of Scots...and English...are reluctant to be considered British, never mind European!

[keithlbw]

Hey who moved me to Europe ! I'm British always have been , always will be .

[swedeheart]

Ha ha I had a good laugh at that, QM. fredpuli I'm buying into your theory about the word 'Europe' having replaced 'the continent' as an expression, and perhaps that is a sign of a greater awareness after all, that, to paraphrase Donne, no island is an island!

And yes habits probably do come into it, a lot. When I was a child in the Sixties our teachers made very sure we knew we were part of Europe. You know that thing children do when they write their own name on the first row and their street address on the second, their home town on the third and so on, ending with a grandiose "The Universe!" on the last row...? ...well for me and my classmates that list always comprised Europe and it's quite deeply rooted with me. However - and this may seem like a paradox - I do believe that Swedes feel very "unique", and that we assume and expect that our fellow Europeans do so too.

To the extent that we do identify with other European nations, well, I'm not aware of any survey on the subject but I strongly suspect that if one was to be carried out it would show that we (Swedes) identify more with the Brit- ... the Engl- ...oh bugger it: ...with you lot than with any other fellow European nationality (with the possible exceptions of Denmark and Norway). Our national television has always broadcast a lot of British (and American) drama and movies, and we do admire the dry, whacky wit we associate you... erm... islanders... with.

Thanks all!

[mollykins]

Yeah but when you say that it generally means the mainland which we aren't on.