Wizard of Oz

[natalie_1982]

I am going to see this at Panto this year with my neice and her friend so I bought the DVD so that they knew what to expect (they're 4 and 3 years old).

I watched it last night and have only just realised how camp the scarecrow, tinman and lion are. Especially tinman. Was this a tongue in cheek funny by the directors/ producers, etc or were films a lot more camp in the late 30's? It was like watching Julian Clary in a suit of armour.

[tonymclark]

I'm not sure that 1930's films were more camp, but then how many other talking Tinmen can you compare the performance to ?

[natalie_1982]

Point taken.

Iron Man wasn't camp though, have never seen that Johnny 5 film but I don't think he was camp. Or that one from Star Wars.

[javelinpc]

dear natalie

the film was an adaptation of a book i believe, and hollywood - as it was then - just made a film that was innocent, fairytale like, and above all harmless.

many films from this era are similar, pre-war family films.

they didnt see the need to make them any other way - it really was a whole different generation !!

these days you dont get this GENUINE level of innocence... it's all put on these days, as everyone else is so "worldy-wise" and corrupted by violence.

its such a shame that the world had to change.

[natalie_1982]

I know what you mean, I was watching it with my fella and every other scene we saying "You wouldn't be able to do that nowadays". It is a shame, I love these films and try to get my neice to watch them with me (Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, Mary Poppins, Oliver, etc). Wizard of Oz is a fab film and I can't wait to see it at Xmas.

[natalie_1982]

I think they would never be the same not only because of the violence nowadays but because of the "PCness" of everything.

[gary baldy]

I dont think the film itself was camp - its just our idea of what camp is has been shaped by camp people using films such as Wizard of Oz as reference. You are not alone Natalie - there has been lots of very academic writing done on the subject.

[spudqueen]

javelinpc - yes the film was an adaptation of a book, which was originally written in 1898, though the film is quite different from the book.
Did you know that the original tinman in the film was Buddy Ebson - later of Beverley Hill Billies fame. Quite a few scenes had been shot when he was rushed to hospital as he couldn't breathe, it turned out that his makeup was aluminium powder which had got on to his lungs, so a new tinman (Jack Haley) was brought in.

BTW is the Panto based on the film or the book as if it's based on the book I'd read it to you neices first as it is quite a bit different to the film - for a start in the book Dorothy wears silver shoes - they were changed to red in the film as they would stand out more on screen.

[PETER22]

this just a wonderful fantasy film , the word camp is just not applicable to this type of film . how can fantasy figures from fairyland be camp !! just enjoy!

[GK2005]

Now you know where the expression "A friend of Dorothy's" comes from!

[alegeegee]

No they were just good actors playing simple parts for the kids!

Camp is a stinking word for Queer, just as Gay has been used not to refer to happy people but ******

why look for things that just arn't there! just a great film that came from an era that wasnt so hung up on filth!

[rampart]

I am sure this is rather daft, but what does the term camp mean? I have read this entire thread and I have heard the term used before, but I really do not know what it means.

[alegeegee]

Dear Rampart

its a stupid idiom for a "shirt lifter" a "Ginger Beer" an "iron Hoof" a "brown hatter" in other word a *******! in this enlightened world of course all of this is so un-pc so we should just say not camp but homosexual

[rampart]

My goodness. I see. I did not know any of the other terms, either!

Interesting. Thank you.

[LordyGeordie]

alegeegee, first off i should like to point out that i am myself straight. but id do feel if someone insists on spouting right-wing bigoted views they should be factual and not done in ignorance as yours seem to be.

first off, camp does not mean homosexual. admittedly a lot of gay men could be described as being camp, but it is not exclusive to gay. camp is merely a term used to describe a man who is slightly effeminate and deliberately exaggerated and theatrical. plenty of straight men can be described as camp.

for example pierce brosnan's portrayal of James Bond is often described as being camp - surely no one can accuse 007 of being a 'shirtlifter'! can they?

Also for those who said Wizard of Oz was set in an age of innocence. it might intrerest you to know that to help the child star judy garland through the gruelling filming schedule she was pumped full of amphetamines. It is also rumoured that she suffered the unwarranted 'attentions' of some of the older studio execs. factors which probably helped towards her untimely demise.

on a slightly lighter note, to get the required number of dwarfs for the scene with the little people whose name i forget, they were brought in from all over the united states and also europe. this invasion of hundreds of dwarves is written in hollywood legend, apparently for the months it took to film it they spent the entire time getting p!ssed, consuming copious amounts of drugs and having sex with both themselves and movie starlets!

[angelap]

alegeegee

your coments are pathetic! homophobic answers were not needed in this thread. you should definatly waste your time somewhere else.

this is a brilliant film and it will always live on as a classic bit of camp christmas fun

[alegeegee]

angelap

your comments are the only pathetic ones

like the PC world we live in where good is bad and bad is good - people like you turn all on its head and degrade it in the process!

we agree on one thing this is a fantastic film - wonderous kids adventure so please, please dont bring "cmp" "Gay" or any other queer expressions in on the debate because they dont exist! onle in pervie minds that are constantly looking for inuendo at every turn!

[angelap]

alegeegee

this thread seems to of changed from one of a light convo about a genuinly good happy film to you going on and basically calling gay people perverts!

how come you think you have the right to pass judgement on anyone? everyone chooses there own paths in life so why should there be people like you waiting to abuse and attack other people who are, in the end, complately equal to you

[polo_tottie]

It wasnt the sudio that started Judy on drugs. MGM is blamed but it was actually her own mum who started her on uppers and downers 2 cope when they were doing vaudeville & when she wanted Judy 2 b full of pep 5 auditions. The studio started her on diet pills. They thought she was too fat & also kept on with whatever she was on b4.

As for the unwanted come-ons from men @ the studio, Louis B Mayer himself kept saying that she was singing from the heart & groping her left breast until she'd had enough 1 day & told him 'Mr Mayer don't ever do that again. If you want to show me where I sing from, just point!'

An age of innocence 4 many people - yet a large number of men @ the studio were corrupt - in those days studios, particularly the dictatorial MGM 'owned' their stars & felt that they had the right 2 do what they pleased with them. With so many beautiful young women around with so little power 2 rebel, is it any wonder that they were taken advantage of?

*I* believe it was a lighthearted film & intended 2b just that. Remember this film was aimed at CHILDREN who were a lot more naive than kids today. Most films churned out in 1930/40 were lighthearted - we must not 4get about the depression & war @ the time. If the studios were 2 survive, they needed $. In order to have $, they had 2b producing things that people wanted 2 see - & ppl surrounded by depression & war dont wanna pay 2 see somethin that'll make them feel bad- they wanna see somethin happy that'll make them 4get their troubles 4 a while. At the time it was made it was still socially unacceptable 2b gay. Judy Garland's own father was, which was 1 of the main reasons they had 2 move town so often. I doubt the studio deliberately put gay innuendos in given the social climate. I read an interview where Judy herself said that such ideas about the wizard of oz were ridiculous. Any 'other' meanings from it have been drawn from our own modern & corrupt minds .

15:11 Mon 08th Jan 2007