Female Islamic slaves?

[birdie1971]

Not up-to-the-minute news (dated 27 November 2010), but news nonetheless...

http://news.yahoo.com..._saudi_women_s_rights


The mind boggles doesn't it? Am I wrong in thinking that Islam is the most oppressive religious system in world when it comes to women's rights? Because that's how it appears to me.

[Buenchico]

To bundle all types of Islam together, with regard to women's rights, makes as much sense as considering all branches of Christianity (including Protestants, Catholics and Mormons) together when considering the rights of any particular section of society (whether that be women, gays, or anyone else).

For example, it would be easy to look at areas under the control of the Taliban (where girls are often excluded from formal education) and state that Islam (as a whole) is opposed to the education of women. Yet 60% of Iranian university students are women.

Generalisations are always dangerous, particularly when they're used to fuel religious intolerance.

Chris

[naomi24]

The question is

//Am I wrong in thinking that Islam is the most oppressive religious system in world when it comes to women's rights?//

And the answer is no, you are not wrong. Complaining about generalisations is an excuse and doesn't alter the facts.

[birdie1971]

Chris – I’m hardly the one being intolerant here – I’m condemning the practice of treating woman as possessions of men.

I agree that not everyone who believes in the Islamic faith treats women unfairly but the Islamic scriptures do quite specifically state that women are not equal to men and this practice is demonstrable proof of that fact.

[naomi24]

It's always the same in these discussions. Those who condemn Islam's subjugation women are, in turn, condemned by the people who misguidedly claim their views represent fairness and equality for all. Somehow they just don't see the irony there. I wouldn't have thought it was that difficult, but it seems it is.

[Lonnie]

If a Muslim follows the Qur'an to the letter, as most profess to do, it makes no difference which branch they belong to,

According to the Qur'an, 'Men have authority over women, because God has made the one, superior to the other.

Sura 2. 82 says that in a court, a womans testimony is worth only half that of a mans.


There's a lot more, but basically, to a strict Muslim, women have no rights, and can be treated however the heas male of the family wants to treat them.

[Lonnie]

Apologies, pressed the wrong key.

As far as that story goes, the father is acting as laid down by the Qur'an, he is head of the family, and his daughter must do as told, or face a very severe punishment.

[youngmafbog]

Well, dont worry as soon a Sharia Law becomes part of UK law you will soon find out.

[mardyfish]

I think this is more about the Saudi interpretation and implementation, rather than the religion in general. I was raised in Saudi and have lived throughout the middle east and there is an entirely different interpretation there - in other Islamic countries, the role of women is vastly different and in some not that different from the UK. The article also throughout refers to Saudi rather than Muslim and I think that distinction should be drawn.

[naomi24]

The only real distinction to be drawn is that Saudi is one of the more extreme examples, but that doesn’t excuse or negate the rest.

[keyplus90]

From your own posted link,

////The surgeon in the holy city of Medina knows her father, also her male guardian, is violating Islamic law by forcibly keeping her single,////

And this one too,

////Islam's holy book, the Quran, warns Muslim men not to prevent their daughters, sisters or female relatives from getting married,////

And of course this one too,

////The Prophet Muhammad himself wouldn't have allowed adhl to take place."////


So who is to blame? Father, Saudi Arabian law or Islam? However I know who you would blame.

And don't try to be expert on something you do not know ABC of.

[oranger]

There must ge something wrong with a system when a woman who is raped is accused of adultery.

[naomi24]

Keyplus continually shoots himself in the foot. He specifically picks up the point that //Islam's holy book, the Quran, warns Muslim men not to prevent their daughters, sisters or female relatives from getting married// which clearly indicates that Muslim men are, in fact, in a position to prevent their daughters, sisters and female relatives from getting married.

There is certainly something wrong with a system where any man wields such control.

[birdie1971]

Keyplus - “So who is to blame? Father, Saudi Arabian law or Islam? However I know who you would blame.”

I'm sure you think that you do, but just to clarify, I would blame two discreet entities – first the fathers and second the Islamic religion. The fathers who are carrying out this virtual slavery are interpreting Islamic scripture in a particular way that supports their viewpoint. Reaching the conclusion that women are the possessions of men is quite easy if you read the Islamic scriptures as it specifically states on numerous occasions that women are not equal to men and that they are indeed, the possessions of men.

Not all muslims adopt this stance as I stated earlier. But the passages are in the scriptures and as we know, the Koran is the literal word of God. It could be argued (as I'm sure these fellows do) that they are following the literal word of Allah and therefore, not breaking any Islamic law.

So, as you rightly ask Keyplus, who's to blame?

The ultimate responsibility is with the Islamic religion. It is that doctrine that plants the idea of male suppression of women firmly in the heads of muslim men and these incidences of female slavery is evidence of that particular kind of misogyny.

[Lonnie]

Who is to blame?.

Well, Saudi Arabian Law is based on the Qur'an, its just their intI would advise thiose on here who haven't, to read the Qur'an, especially how women are to be treated, as its that part that relates to the original question, its just their interpretation.

[Ankou]

"am i wrong in thinking that Islam is the most oppressive religious system in world when it comes to women's rights?"

the stronger the influence of religion - it doesn't matter which one - the more oppressive the regime. so i guess, yes, today that is probably true.

but those that hark back to days of crusades and religious wars, must also hark back to days of witchhunts and inquisitions, the burning of women and children as heredics etc etc etc. all religions are oppressive or have been, that is their point. but you are also referring to a political system (in saudi) so then you should consider apartheid, colonialism or slavery. or pehaps the regimes oif china, india and pakistan for female oppression.

too many times do we get threads about islam blah blah blah, why not do something about rather than just sitting at the spindle turning the wheel. we all know that islam is about half a century behind the times (check their calendar!)

http://library.thinkq...ug/01443/fo_home.html

[naomi24]

//but you are also referring to a political system (in saudi) so then you should consider apartheid, colonialism or slavery. or pehaps the regimes oif china, india and pakistan for female oppression. //

I disagree. We aren't expected to consider the injustices of Islam when we talk about colonialism or apartheid, so why should we take those subjects into account here? Injustice exists all over the world, but as I said one does not negate the other, and neither does it excuse it so let us not digress. This discussion is about Islam.

[Ankou]

exactly my point.

groundhog day.

[naomi24]

Well don't join in if you don't like it. It's not compulsory.

[Scylax]

I take Kipling's long-term view:

'Once there was 'The People', terror gave it birth.
Once there was 'The People', and it made a hell of earth.
Earth arose and crushed it, Listen O ye slain.
Once there was 'The People'....it shall never be again.

For 'The People' read Inquisition. Naziism, Stalinism, and any other oppressive regimes.

[keyplus90]

////scriptures as it specifically states on numerous occasions that women are not equal to men and that they are indeed, the possessions of men.////

Again this is what you believe Scripture states. Women retire at 60 and men at 65 in UK. Why aren’t they considered equal? Why are there separate toilets for men and women? Why don’t women compete alongside men in the Olympic and other events? Why there are no boxing matches between men and women?
Are they not “EQUAL”?