Crosswords0 min ago
Police brutality?
40 Answers
Video footage has now been released of the man who died during the G20 demonstration.
The police said there'd been a confrontation with him, they will state (almost certainly) that they told him to move and that he did'nt he did'nt comply (or at least quickly enough) to my mind he posed no threat to the police as his hands were in his pockets and he was walking away quietly and calmly.
The defence will say there is no correlation with his heart attack and the incident, but, my ancient first aid training taught me that falls can kill as can shock.
What do you think the charge should be, if any?
The police said there'd been a confrontation with him, they will state (almost certainly) that they told him to move and that he did'nt he did'nt comply (or at least quickly enough) to my mind he posed no threat to the police as his hands were in his pockets and he was walking away quietly and calmly.
The defence will say there is no correlation with his heart attack and the incident, but, my ancient first aid training taught me that falls can kill as can shock.
What do you think the charge should be, if any?
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It doesn't matter whether he was an innocent bystander or a protestor.
Police need to treat people appropriately no matter who they are.
There is a big difference between the way Everton can be expected to treat people in the street and the way Police can in crowd control situations.
That comparison is no more valid than saying "I can't drive through red lights with a siren on why should they be allowed to?"
The Police are clearly moving down the road clearing it. If they stopped and waited for everybody to amble on they'd never achieve that.
The guy was clearly ignoring them and in the context it wasn't excessive.
BUT Iggy brings up a really good point that I forgot
Were the Police lying to the Public *again*
We never got to the bottom of all the lies about padded jackets and jumping marriers in the Menenzes case.
That's the investigation that needs to happen
This guy's death is sad but it's not a big deal in the scheme of things.
If the Police are lying to us it is a big deal and whoever's responsible needs making an example of.
Police need to treat people appropriately no matter who they are.
There is a big difference between the way Everton can be expected to treat people in the street and the way Police can in crowd control situations.
That comparison is no more valid than saying "I can't drive through red lights with a siren on why should they be allowed to?"
The Police are clearly moving down the road clearing it. If they stopped and waited for everybody to amble on they'd never achieve that.
The guy was clearly ignoring them and in the context it wasn't excessive.
BUT Iggy brings up a really good point that I forgot
Were the Police lying to the Public *again*
We never got to the bottom of all the lies about padded jackets and jumping marriers in the Menenzes case.
That's the investigation that needs to happen
This guy's death is sad but it's not a big deal in the scheme of things.
If the Police are lying to us it is a big deal and whoever's responsible needs making an example of.
I don't think anyone's suggesting the police stop and wait, jake. Force would have been perfectly acceptable.
It's a question of whether the force was excessive. Pushing him to the floor from behind while he has his hands in his pockets was disproportionate and unprofessional.
He lost his temper, admittedly under difficult circumstances. But let's not kid ourselves that he reasoned it was the most effecive way to clear the street - he lost his rag.
You're right - nothing at all compared to the Stockwell killing, but still poor policing.
It's a question of whether the force was excessive. Pushing him to the floor from behind while he has his hands in his pockets was disproportionate and unprofessional.
He lost his temper, admittedly under difficult circumstances. But let's not kid ourselves that he reasoned it was the most effecive way to clear the street - he lost his rag.
You're right - nothing at all compared to the Stockwell killing, but still poor policing.
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It appears he was told to move on as they were clearing the street. Protester or not, he's ambling away taking no notice and gets a shove.
What if he just didn't hear them? He wasn't exactly a spring chicken, and there was plenty of noise going on around him.
If you're walking behind someone and you ask them to move, and they don't react, is your first response to shove them? And it would've had to have been a pretty hard shove, too.
What if he just didn't hear them? He wasn't exactly a spring chicken, and there was plenty of noise going on around him.
If you're walking behind someone and you ask them to move, and they don't react, is your first response to shove them? And it would've had to have been a pretty hard shove, too.
There is possibly discrepancy with police statements and the video, I alluded to that in the initial question, I've even tried to clarify their statement.
BUT, the question remains the police are trained in such circumstances to snatch protesters from the crowd in situations far more violent than this.
WHY did'nt the police snatch him?
That would've been the proffesional thing to do, it appears to me entirely that the officer concerned has shown poor judgement and a lack of discipline.
BUT, the question remains the police are trained in such circumstances to snatch protesters from the crowd in situations far more violent than this.
WHY did'nt the police snatch him?
That would've been the proffesional thing to do, it appears to me entirely that the officer concerned has shown poor judgement and a lack of discipline.
Make sure that the video is watched till the end as the first bit of footage is fast moving and its difficult to see what occured just before the man fell,but a little later in the video the footage is run in slow motion and you can see the baton being raised behind the victim and you can see it clearly in the policemans hand as the man is falling.
On Monday, a Ms Glass for the Independent Police Complaints Commission issued a statement about this incident which stated...
"A number of witnesses have described seeing him there, getting caught up in a crowd and being pushed back by police officers," she added."
I wonder which witnesses told the IPCC this entirely fictitious version of events?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7986192.stm
"A number of witnesses have described seeing him there, getting caught up in a crowd and being pushed back by police officers," she added."
I wonder which witnesses told the IPCC this entirely fictitious version of events?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7986192.stm
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I don't think you could get much more than assault for that incident, although I have heard of cases (muggungs etc) were the victim has died and culprit charged with manslaughter.
I feel the investigation should centre on the assault and any suggestion of perverting the course of justice.
Very good point about the cameras Steve.
I feel the investigation should centre on the assault and any suggestion of perverting the course of justice.
Very good point about the cameras Steve.
This does'nt appear to be a heat of the moment thing, it seems (for a demo) quite quiet,they are trained to deal with these instances, so no I disagree with you Elvis.
I am more than happy to cut the police a bit of slack (such as the De Menezes case) but this does'nt qualify to my mind, he's not bothering them, he's not looking at them, his hands are in his pockets, he's not shouting at them and he's walking away.
Why did'nt they just arrest him after snatching him from the street?
Noone's answered that yet.
I am more than happy to cut the police a bit of slack (such as the De Menezes case) but this does'nt qualify to my mind, he's not bothering them, he's not looking at them, his hands are in his pockets, he's not shouting at them and he's walking away.
Why did'nt they just arrest him after snatching him from the street?
Noone's answered that yet.
