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I think Russia arranged for it to crash.

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Imagine if you are a relative of one of the Ukrainian prisoners. What must you be thinking?

I would guess that either the Russians did it on purpose or the Ukrainians did it by accident.

They thought they were getting their loved ones back alive and instead this tragedy happens - so many killed.

I think in a war, anyone will take advantage of any potential propaganda opportunity they can find.

I doubt we should believe what Russia says.

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Who knows? The plane appears to have been originally in Iran, mysteriously. The claim there were Ukrainian prisoners on board seems rather dubious. However one way or another those prisoners won't be coming home because if they ever appeared it would prove Russia had been lying. Last year the Russians claimed Ukraine had attacked one of their prison campus in occupied E Ukraine killing scores of their own prisoners - a claim no one believed then or now.



I'm getting some ad block thing that's stopping me seeing that.  What happened?

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Oh yes sorry so am I now: it was ok  before:

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The IL-76 has apparently been tracked on Flight Radar. Disappeared from radar tracking over Cyprus having flown from Iran and stopped off in - ahem - Syria.

Taking prisoners of a tour of Asia and the Middle East? 

Thanks ich.  I read that but I'm going to have to read it again.  My first thought was sabotage.

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To be honest, the footage of the plane coming down, assuming it's genuine, shows it's intact and in fact an object appears be be jettisoned from it as it descends. The Russians say it was hit by three Patriot missiles. I doubt we will ever know  the truth 

I should think it was shot down by Ukraine but carrying Russian troops.

This is another link to the Reuters report.

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Thanks Corby

"I should think it was shot down by Ukraine but carrying Russian troops"

It made a hell of a bang when it hit the ground: one might almost think there were weapons on board 😀

The President of Chad, mind you, visiting Moscow, made a nice little speech expressing his sympathy for the deaths of the Russian military personnel: Putin looking rather stony-faced. He'll be getting the bus back to Africa.

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Russia has released a list of the alleged 65 Ukrainians who died in the crash: many of those on that list are already back in Ukraine. So it looks like they've either fabricated the whole thing, or its an administrative error.  I don't know if anyone ever knows in advance who will be returned before exchanges take place: if they don't, then maybe it's not so bad.

//Russia has released a list of the alleged 65 Ukrainians who died in the crash: many of those on that list are already back in Ukraine.//

I'd be staying away from high windows for a while if I'd compiled that list.

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This is disappointing: no mention of Iran, no mention of the dodgy list, no mention of the fact Ukraine now states there were no prisoners on board: it would have been prudent of Ukraine not to say too much too soon until they could be sure

"In war, truth is the first casualty." -- Aeschylus.

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What amuses and annoys me is western commentators (notably the normally sensible Michael Clarke on Sky) wetting  themselves about Russians "red lines" - with the prospect of a Patriot missile having been used to down a plane on Russian territory. The Russians don't seem too bothered. There. Are. No. Red. Lines. If we are going to wring our hands about this sort of  thing we'll be done for. 

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