News93 mins ago
So Has The Lock Down Been Worth The Pain?
The news today stated that the economy shrank by over 20% and we could be heading for 3 million unemployed or more with all the misery and despair which it will create. Has it been worth it really, the human obsession with having to save every single life at all costs and that we must keep everyone alive as long as possible no matter how old, ill or frail they might again at all costs. Ironically the human cost of all this in years to come will be terrible in terms of the misery, joblessness, poverty, homelessness and possible social unrest. No doubt I myself will be accused of being inhumane for questioning the wisdom of the life above everything else attitude. As Mr Spock used to say on star trek, "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few", bet he wouldn't be allowed to say it now, but that's another story.
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No, I don't think it's been worth the pain. I'm classed as 'vulnerable' because of my age, but it is purely up to me to look after myself and do what I feel is best for me. We really need to get back to 'normal' as soon as possible. It's horrendous that so many people have lost jobs and may never get another one. This 'new normal' scares the hell out of me!
Young people are less likely to die but we still don't know the extent of the damage done to the body.
Every person the virus infects is another opportunity to mutate into a strain that is far more deadly.
The stress and effect on the economy of millions of people dying should not be underestimated.
Perhaps the human obsession with consumption and the economy might be a bigger problem than the obsession with living.
People who don't think the virus is a problem have taken it very causally and spread it around, defeating the quarantine measures that may have otherwise seen the virus eliminated by now. The worst of the economic damage is down to them.
New Zealand went into lockdown early and hard, quickly eliminating community spread and their economy suffered far less. Australia had almost beaten the virus when two security guards supposedly guarding a quarantine hotel had sex with people they were guarding. Virtually every current case in Australia can be traced back to these idiots. The economic damage from the subsequent second lockdown in Victoria is in the billions of dollars and should not have been necessary. Britain has suffered badly because some fool initially thought "herd immunity" was the solution so allowed the virus to become widespread very quickly.
Every person the virus infects is another opportunity to mutate into a strain that is far more deadly.
The stress and effect on the economy of millions of people dying should not be underestimated.
Perhaps the human obsession with consumption and the economy might be a bigger problem than the obsession with living.
People who don't think the virus is a problem have taken it very causally and spread it around, defeating the quarantine measures that may have otherwise seen the virus eliminated by now. The worst of the economic damage is down to them.
New Zealand went into lockdown early and hard, quickly eliminating community spread and their economy suffered far less. Australia had almost beaten the virus when two security guards supposedly guarding a quarantine hotel had sex with people they were guarding. Virtually every current case in Australia can be traced back to these idiots. The economic damage from the subsequent second lockdown in Victoria is in the billions of dollars and should not have been necessary. Britain has suffered badly because some fool initially thought "herd immunity" was the solution so allowed the virus to become widespread very quickly.
TTT, Labour did not nominate Claire Fox. In fact, they quite strongly opposed her nomination. No 10 allowed it to stand as she had 'addressed her historic comments about the Troubles and acknowledged the pain that the families of the victims of terrorism have faced'. She was nominated for a non-affiliated peerage.
-- answer removed --
//NJ, how many folk catch the flu or develop pneumonia each day in the UK?//
Not a clue I’m afraid (without looking). I provided the figures to put the Covid matter into some sort of perspective. Around 14,000 people die each and every week in the UK. In the last week of July 193 (1.3%) died either with or from Covid.
//A hard question to answer.It has been bad for the economy but that must be set against the,unknown, number of lives that have been saved.//
It must also be set against the (again unknown) number of lives that will be lost through the suspension of non-Covid medical treatment, danny.
//I'm classed as 'vulnerable' because of my age, but it is purely up to me to look after myself and do what I feel is best for me.//
The voice of reason from iluvmargie. Never before have governments tried to tackle a pandemic in this way and I hope that none ever do again. The trouble is there are too many people who expect to live forever courtesy of a government that will protect them from everything.
//People who don't think the virus is a problem have taken it very causally and spread it around, defeating the quarantine measures that may have otherwise seen the virus eliminated by now.//
There is absolutely no way that the virus would have been eliminated by now, whatever measures were taken. That needs to be unconditionally accepted.
//Australia had almost beaten the virus when two security guards supposedly guarding a quarantine hotel had sex with people they were guarding. Virtually every current case in Australia can be traced back to these idiots.//
How was it passed on to others, then, if everybody else was obeying the rules? The fact is that humans interact with each other and no government on Earth will prevent that.
//New Zealand went into lockdown early and hard, quickly eliminating community spread//
Indeed. And now they’ve got it back (having virtually destroyed their tourist industry upon which they depend heavily).
//How many do you think would have been dead without the efforts to slow the spread?//
I’ve no idea and nor have you or anybody else. By the time those 193 had become infected many of the most stringent restrictions had been lifted. I am by no means stupid; I simply have a different opinion. What’s more stupid than me simply stating a fact is to suggest the country can remain in some sort of economic torpor indefinitely - or “until the virus is eliminated” or "until a vaccine is found", whichever occurs first.
No, the lockdown, certainly the way it was done, was not worth it. The cost will continue to be counted very many years from now.
Not a clue I’m afraid (without looking). I provided the figures to put the Covid matter into some sort of perspective. Around 14,000 people die each and every week in the UK. In the last week of July 193 (1.3%) died either with or from Covid.
//A hard question to answer.It has been bad for the economy but that must be set against the,unknown, number of lives that have been saved.//
It must also be set against the (again unknown) number of lives that will be lost through the suspension of non-Covid medical treatment, danny.
//I'm classed as 'vulnerable' because of my age, but it is purely up to me to look after myself and do what I feel is best for me.//
The voice of reason from iluvmargie. Never before have governments tried to tackle a pandemic in this way and I hope that none ever do again. The trouble is there are too many people who expect to live forever courtesy of a government that will protect them from everything.
//People who don't think the virus is a problem have taken it very causally and spread it around, defeating the quarantine measures that may have otherwise seen the virus eliminated by now.//
There is absolutely no way that the virus would have been eliminated by now, whatever measures were taken. That needs to be unconditionally accepted.
//Australia had almost beaten the virus when two security guards supposedly guarding a quarantine hotel had sex with people they were guarding. Virtually every current case in Australia can be traced back to these idiots.//
How was it passed on to others, then, if everybody else was obeying the rules? The fact is that humans interact with each other and no government on Earth will prevent that.
//New Zealand went into lockdown early and hard, quickly eliminating community spread//
Indeed. And now they’ve got it back (having virtually destroyed their tourist industry upon which they depend heavily).
//How many do you think would have been dead without the efforts to slow the spread?//
I’ve no idea and nor have you or anybody else. By the time those 193 had become infected many of the most stringent restrictions had been lifted. I am by no means stupid; I simply have a different opinion. What’s more stupid than me simply stating a fact is to suggest the country can remain in some sort of economic torpor indefinitely - or “until the virus is eliminated” or "until a vaccine is found", whichever occurs first.
No, the lockdown, certainly the way it was done, was not worth it. The cost will continue to be counted very many years from now.
beso > "Australia had almost beaten the virus when two security guards supposedly guarding a quarantine hotel had sex with people they were guarding. Virtually every current case in Australia can be traced back to these idiots."
That is interesting beso, as the 'Victorian coronavirus hotel quarantine inquiry delayed due to stage 4 restrictions 'has now been postponed until August 17.'
https:/
Tora Tora Tora > "have a day off peeps, Claire Fox is a Labour nomination, yes, the opposition get to nominate people for peerages"
Unlike the Melbourne guards sex responsible for covid spike unsubstantiated allegation above, this one is a straightforward falsehood; Boris Johnson put her name forward in his Nominations for non-affiliated Peerages.
https:/
No peeping at the facts, eh ?
(Claire Fox might do a John Cleese and reject it.)
That is interesting beso, as the 'Victorian coronavirus hotel quarantine inquiry delayed due to stage 4 restrictions 'has now been postponed until August 17.'
https:/
Tora Tora Tora > "have a day off peeps, Claire Fox is a Labour nomination, yes, the opposition get to nominate people for peerages"
Unlike the Melbourne guards sex responsible for covid spike unsubstantiated allegation above, this one is a straightforward falsehood; Boris Johnson put her name forward in his Nominations for non-affiliated Peerages.
https:/
No peeping at the facts, eh ?
(Claire Fox might do a John Cleese and reject it.)
dave - // Is the life of an old lady in a care home who is frail and has alziemers as important to save as the economic future of a young couple with a child and mortgage? //
If you are one of the young couple, maybe not - if you are the old lady, then I'd say probably!!!
Seriously though, I don't think we can start making dispassionate decisions about who lives or dies based on their perceived value to society as a whole - that would simply lead to euthanasia on a grand scale.
I do however think that a degree of pragmatism has to be applied in terms of actually allowing a virus to take its course and find its level, rather than treating it as the end of civilisation as we know it.
If you are one of the young couple, maybe not - if you are the old lady, then I'd say probably!!!
Seriously though, I don't think we can start making dispassionate decisions about who lives or dies based on their perceived value to society as a whole - that would simply lead to euthanasia on a grand scale.
I do however think that a degree of pragmatism has to be applied in terms of actually allowing a virus to take its course and find its level, rather than treating it as the end of civilisation as we know it.
"How many do you think would have been dead without the efforts to slow the spread?"
Missed point. This part was not about how many deaths overall, it was comparing the relative disturbance/interference made for a new lower risk than is made for an established higher risk. Which, to me, seems a sensible point to make.
Missed point. This part was not about how many deaths overall, it was comparing the relative disturbance/interference made for a new lower risk than is made for an established higher risk. Which, to me, seems a sensible point to make.
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