Finally, The Penny Drops!

[ToraToraTora]

https://news.sky.com/story/eu-leaders-have-accepted-uk-is-leaving-without-a-deal-11778386
So will they just let no deal happen or start negotiating?

[Zacs-Master]

'they have no actual way to force anything beyond administrative punishments and fines'

Then why vote leave? Surely we could have stayed with all the benefits and when they made new laws (as they probably will with the Irish border issue), we could have just said 'no way Jose'?

You can't have it both ways, Tora. They're either the EUSSR or a pushover.

[Zacs-Master]

'They rule by stealth not military might, Zacs'

I never made any allusion to military might. I leave that to yourself and Tora etc. You're claiming them to be these despotic overlords but then when we're discussing the Irish border they're not quite so bad.

[ichkeria]

You don’t just “drive through” bainbrig.
The Irish republic believe it or not carries out immigration checks at its sea borders.

[ichkeria]

Ultimately though, Brexit will destroy the UK as it currently stands or the situation with Ireland will kill off Brexit.
One of those two things will happen

[New Judge]

//'they have no actual way to force anything beyond administrative punishments and fines'

Then why vote leave?//

Because there is no reason why the UK should suffer administrative punishments and fines imposed by an unelected elite with doubtful legitimacy.

[dannyk13]

ich //the situation with Ireland will kill off Brexit.//
However much you might wish it, it will not happen.

[Zacs-Master]

But surely, if they're not able to force Ireland to have a border we can tell them where to stick their fines?

You posted a while ago that 'The EU has ensured that its tentacles reach so deeply into its member nations’ bowels.....'

A rather overwrought description if they're not able to enforce a border, don't you think?

[dannyk13]

ZM, the EU will not need to force anything.As a member of the EU Ireland will have a border.

[Zacs-Master]

Then you need to take that up with NJ who wrote

'That'll be nobody then because neither Ireland nor the UK has the slightest intention of imposing a hard border, regardless of the outcome of Brexit'

[dannyk13]

ZM Nj was referring to a hard border.

[Zacs-Master]

So was I. It's only you talking about another kind as far as i can see.

[dannyk13]

ZM, Members of the EU have borders with non-EU countries,That is a geographical fact.,

[Zacs-Master]

Not with member countries who are leaving.

[dannyk13]

ZM, with all non members.

[Zacs-Master]

Eh? You've lost me. The countries who have borders with non Eu states joined the EU with the EU fully aware of the situation. Our situation is completely different. Please stop it with the irrelevancies.

[dannyk13]

Then stop it with the pedantics.

[Ellipsis]

> an unelected elite with doubtful legitimacy

Who's this? Jean-Claude Juncker? Or Boris Johnson!

Note that, after a recent election, the supposedly unelected Juncker is soon to be replaced by Ursula von der Leyen.

[New Judge]

I don't call being elected by MEP's (who themselves are appointed from the "Party List" according to how many votes the party gets) as being "elected". More than that, the list of runners and riders for that post was carefully contrived.

[Zacs-Master]

'Then stop it with the pedantics'

danny, there was no pedantry until you started unnecessarily trying to define a hard or soft border.

NJ (whom I was conversing with) and myself knew exactly what sort of border we were discussing.

[Khandro]

Ellipsis; //Note that, after a recent election, the supposedly unelected Juncker is soon to be replaced by Ursula von der Leyen.//

This isn't true. The Head of the Commission (presently Junker & future von der Leyen) are not primarily elected, they are nominated by a small group within the European Council and then formally elected by the European Parliament, for a five-year term - the emphasis being on 'formally' because parliament always does what it is told (apart from the Brexit Party!) - in other words it's a typical EU stitch-up posing as democracy.