Who Rules This Country, The Government On The People's Behalf, The Government Who Make The Laws Or The Judges Who's Job It Is To Enforce The Law?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3898716/D-Day-Brexit-Britain-s-exit-EU-DELAYED-landmark-court-case-rules-Theresa-start-EU-talks-without-MPs-vote.html

[EDDIE51]

This was the declared position of MP's the day before the referendum
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35616946
How many have changed their stance??
What chance is there of them voting to implement A50?

[naomi24]

fiction-factory, actually you remind me on a regular basis that I know far more about Islam than you do - you've just done it again here and no one is talking about Islam. However, you're right in that you knew about the 'advisory' nature of the referendum when I didn't. If I don't know, I'm always happy to admit it. That's how I learn.

[Baldric]

I have never seen Naomi say that her view is more valid than someone else's, if your lack of knowledge makes you feel insecure I really don't see how you can blame her tbh.

[jno]

the advisory nature of the referendum was pointed out many times, even by me. It was pointed out at the time of the original EEC referendum by Enoch Powell, no less, who was, if nothing else, a most learned parliamentarian. This is a parliamentary democracy; parliament is sovereign. This was settled in part by the Civil Wars of the 1640s, in part by the Glorious Revolution of 1688. Britain pretty much led the world in this, though the Swedes also have a claim. It is why England is called the Mother of Parliaments.

[naomi24]

jno, I know something about history, but you'll have to forgive me for not having heard Enoch Powell speaking on the subject. The rest is clearly down to my own lack of attention. Must try harder.

[EDDIE51]

naomi , you seem to make a habit of 'not seeing' anything that does not support your personal view!
The 'advisory' nature of the referendum was made very clear from the first time it was proposed, here is just one link ( to prove I have not 'made it up)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/23/eu-referendum-legally-binding-brexit-lisbon-cameron-sovereign-parliament

[ladybirder]

Me neither Baldric.

[naomi24]

Eddie, I don't lies.

[naomi24]

*I don't TELL lies*

(Words keep disappearing as I post. Very odd).


Baldric/Ladybirder, thank you.

[agchristie]

It's certainly developing into a marathon which would be right up Eddie Izzard's street :(

[Jackdaw33]

You must be younger than me, Naomi. Enoch virtually destroyed his own career. He refused to stand for reelection and advised people to vote Labour since they had promised a referendum on the EEC. He failed to win the referendum but his intervention single-handedly brought down the Heath government. For that alone we should be eternally grateful.

[Gromit]

Parliament had to vote on legislation for us to join in 1972. So Parliament has to vote on us coming out.
The Referendum result was not legally binding. And the Government cannot take power without Parliament yielding it.

[Kromovaracun]

It is entirely right that parliament should debate this.

The only thing we know for certain about the referendum is that a majority of the people who voted in it voted to leave the EU. How we leave, and on what terms, were not on the ballot paper. Anyone who advocates anything more detailed than "leave" on the grounds that "it is the will of the people" has no means whatsoever of asserting this, and they are spouting hot air in pursuit of an agenda.

Everyone who is upset about the court ruling seem to be assuming that Parliament will necessarily use this chance to stop Brexit happening per se. There's no reason to be certain that will be the outcome. If Parliament does use this to stop Brexit happening at all - *that* will be the travesty, not this ruling.

Yes, before someone points it out, I am aware that most MPs campaigned to Remain. Parliamentary voting is subject to all kinds of horse trading and political calculation. There's no reason to assume that MPs - who want to get re-elected - will torpedo Brexit per se. But even if you assume that every MP votes purely on their principles and nothing else, there's no reason to assume they haven't changed. I voted Remain too. But I think now the referendum has happened, it's imperative that we leave. I think that's a pragmatic and not entirely uncommon attitude among Leavers, despite the hysteria.

Speaking of which - I find the language of "treachery" used to describe Remainers somewhat disturbing. Believe it or not, Remainers voted with their conscience, just like you probably did, and voted according to what they thought was best, just like you did. They are not "traitors". And it is certainly not "treachery" for an independent judiciary to do things other than what the government wants. Be glad we have an independent judiciary at all, and please, please, just try to see the complexities in this issue.

[naomi24]

Krom, only a day or two back I was wondering what had happened to you. Nice to see you.

[Kromovaracun]

" I think that's a pragmatic and not entirely uncommon attitude among Leavers, despite the hysteria. "

* among Remainers...

[Kromovaracun]

Aww thanks naomi.

[naomi24]

You're welcome! Too many 'brains' have disappeared from these pages. I'm delighted to see you back. Are you ok?

[Kromovaracun]

I am extremely busy, unfortunately. So I don't know how regularly I will be posting. But I'm very well, and I recently got engaged. How are you? :)

[naomi24]

Krom, Oh how nice! Congratulations! When's the wedding and can I be a bridesmaid? ;o)

I'm fine, thank you for asking.

It will be good to see you posting again when you have time. I can't promise I'll always agree with you, but I'm delighted to welcome you back nevertheless. x

[Kromovaracun]

It's a civil partnership, so unfortunately we don't have any bridesmaid vacancies ;P