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Answers
Just dusting off the Peace In Our Time script for you to use in your defence of the indefensible
09:10 Mon 15th Jun 2015
Svejk - //Perhaps we just find it easier to empathise with the victims. Maybe those who want us to show some understanding need a closer to home message. //
I think that is the crux of the issue.
If we start separating out our empathy into sections - those who 'deserve' it, and those who don't, then we are in danger of viewing others as fundamentally different from ourselves, and they are not.
They may live a different way, and have customs that differ from ours, but we should not allow the visions and actions of high-profile extremists to colour our sense of belonging to the same species on this planet of ours, and the vast majority of the human race who do not sign up to this hateful and destructive cult - which the majority of Muslims do not.
//Imo, there's no place in the 'Western World' for this moon-worshipping death cult. Certainly until they change their ways and put their houses in order. //
Please see the above paragraph.
I think that is the crux of the issue.
If we start separating out our empathy into sections - those who 'deserve' it, and those who don't, then we are in danger of viewing others as fundamentally different from ourselves, and they are not.
They may live a different way, and have customs that differ from ours, but we should not allow the visions and actions of high-profile extremists to colour our sense of belonging to the same species on this planet of ours, and the vast majority of the human race who do not sign up to this hateful and destructive cult - which the majority of Muslims do not.
//Imo, there's no place in the 'Western World' for this moon-worshipping death cult. Certainly until they change their ways and put their houses in order. //
Please see the above paragraph.
Maggiebee //I find your comments rather strange Ratters.
"At the end of the day, if his parents hadnt raised him as a Muslim he would almost certainly be alive today!!"
They are muslim, what else would they raise him as? I am a Christian and I have raised my children as Christians. What's strange about that?//
My parents were Christian and I went to sunday school etc, I was then allowed my education and common sense to make my own choices, I became an atheist and my parents were absolutely fine with my choice.
I have three children, now grown up, I never raised them as atheists, I allowed them to make their own decisions based on what they see and learn about life themselves.
Parents need to stop brainwashing children to believing this nonsense and let them learn for themselves!!
Not all Muslims are extremists I know, that is because they don't follow their holy book, any devout Muslim following the words in the Quran would be an extremist by default.
"At the end of the day, if his parents hadnt raised him as a Muslim he would almost certainly be alive today!!"
They are muslim, what else would they raise him as? I am a Christian and I have raised my children as Christians. What's strange about that?//
My parents were Christian and I went to sunday school etc, I was then allowed my education and common sense to make my own choices, I became an atheist and my parents were absolutely fine with my choice.
I have three children, now grown up, I never raised them as atheists, I allowed them to make their own decisions based on what they see and learn about life themselves.
Parents need to stop brainwashing children to believing this nonsense and let them learn for themselves!!
Not all Muslims are extremists I know, that is because they don't follow their holy book, any devout Muslim following the words in the Quran would be an extremist by default.
> His family say he was groomed online
Does nobody find it slightly concerning that, apparently as a sole result of his online interactions, with no real world influence, this kid became radicalised, managed to leave the country on his own and blow himself up in a suicide attack?
If that's the case then presumably other kids and susceptible adults may be radicalised to do likewise in this country.
A primary defence against this would be the Data Retention and Investigatory Powers Bill, the so-called "Snoopers' Charter". This is the only legislation that would allow the authorities to identify and start to monitor individuals who were watching material, or communicating with individuals, that could radicalise them.
So who is against this Bill?
Does nobody find it slightly concerning that, apparently as a sole result of his online interactions, with no real world influence, this kid became radicalised, managed to leave the country on his own and blow himself up in a suicide attack?
If that's the case then presumably other kids and susceptible adults may be radicalised to do likewise in this country.
A primary defence against this would be the Data Retention and Investigatory Powers Bill, the so-called "Snoopers' Charter". This is the only legislation that would allow the authorities to identify and start to monitor individuals who were watching material, or communicating with individuals, that could radicalise them.
So who is against this Bill?
//This is the only legislation that would allow the authorities to identify and start to monitor individuals who were watching material //
how would the authorities differentiate between those who were watching material to become radicals, and those who were, well, just watching?
(the "townsend defence", i think you can call it.....)
how would the authorities differentiate between those who were watching material to become radicals, and those who were, well, just watching?
(the "townsend defence", i think you can call it.....)
andy hughes
My approach is that simply knee-jerk hatred as espoused so frequently and easily on sites like this do nothing to help anyone, including the people who whip themselves up into a frenzy of misplaced self-righteousness.
Doesn't accusing others of self-righteousness make you self-righteous, andy?
self-righteous
confident of one's own righteousness, especially when smugly moralistic and intolerant of the opinions and behavior of others.
My approach is that simply knee-jerk hatred as espoused so frequently and easily on sites like this do nothing to help anyone, including the people who whip themselves up into a frenzy of misplaced self-righteousness.
Doesn't accusing others of self-righteousness make you self-righteous, andy?
self-righteous
confident of one's own righteousness, especially when smugly moralistic and intolerant of the opinions and behavior of others.
Peter; //Efen tho you will be killing Muslims, they are er bad muslims ....//
I don't know if they are bad Muslims, but that's what the Sunnis think and vice versa. It's been going on for over a thousand years, maybe Keyplus can explain. The goal is not an Islamic state as such, but a certain kind of Islamic state.
I don't know if they are bad Muslims, but that's what the Sunnis think and vice versa. It's been going on for over a thousand years, maybe Keyplus can explain. The goal is not an Islamic state as such, but a certain kind of Islamic state.
> how would the authorities differentiate between those who were watching material to become radicals, and those who were, well, just watching?
They wouldn't. They would have to start monitoring/surveilling everyone who watched the material. They wouldn't be in a position to arrest those individuals unless the material itself was illegal to watch, for example as in the case you went on to say ...
> (the "townsend defence", i think you can call it.....)
I don't think that would apply in these circumstances.
They wouldn't. They would have to start monitoring/surveilling everyone who watched the material. They wouldn't be in a position to arrest those individuals unless the material itself was illegal to watch, for example as in the case you went on to say ...
> (the "townsend defence", i think you can call it.....)
I don't think that would apply in these circumstances.
youngmafbog - //Just what planet, let alone country, doe you live in? //
Earth - England, last time I checked.
//These people are evil - end of.//
Simple then - that precludes you ever having to make the slightest effort to find out what motivates these extremists, and if there is a way to alter their mindset.
Oh, and by the way, the notion of 'evil' depends whose gun barrel you are staring down.
If you were a six-year-old Afghan child who had never seen a white man, or anything on wheels before, and the US Army rolled armoured personnel carriers into your village and pointed a gun at your father and started shouting things you didn't understand - that may pass for your very own definition of 'evil'.
Maybe you should try thinking a little outside your own insular fearful isolated simplistic hatred and look at what you can do, instead of putting your hands over your ears, shutting your eyes and hoping someone else will pull the trigger for you.
Earth - England, last time I checked.
//These people are evil - end of.//
Simple then - that precludes you ever having to make the slightest effort to find out what motivates these extremists, and if there is a way to alter their mindset.
Oh, and by the way, the notion of 'evil' depends whose gun barrel you are staring down.
If you were a six-year-old Afghan child who had never seen a white man, or anything on wheels before, and the US Army rolled armoured personnel carriers into your village and pointed a gun at your father and started shouting things you didn't understand - that may pass for your very own definition of 'evil'.
Maybe you should try thinking a little outside your own insular fearful isolated simplistic hatred and look at what you can do, instead of putting your hands over your ears, shutting your eyes and hoping someone else will pull the trigger for you.
Baldric - //Well given your view of our Armed Forces you would certainly get someone else to pull the trigger for you! //
I personally would hope that's not necessary - I think it would be better if we started thinking about looking towards a world where we don't actually need anyone to pull triggers.
A dream? Of course it is - but unless someone makes a start, the killing is never going to stop.
I personally would hope that's not necessary - I think it would be better if we started thinking about looking towards a world where we don't actually need anyone to pull triggers.
A dream? Of course it is - but unless someone makes a start, the killing is never going to stop.
It might not be in my lifetime Andy (I'm 63) but I'm reasonably certain there are the makings of a Major Conflict in this Country between the Muslim Population and the Indigenous Population. I'm not saying all Muslims are Extremists but I believe a fairly high percentage of them would be prepared to conceal extremists within their communities until such time as the Revolution begins. Remember these Guys want Global Muslimisation
In a previous debate, on a similar subject, one our regulars actually commented that it was the parents fault for being Muslims, and bringing up their kids to be Muslims as well. !
Incredible but true.
I was brought up as a Catholic, and had a Northern Ireland Dad. There was lots of talk at the time that, as all the IRA were Catholics, therefore we were guilty as well, by association. Bombing outrages were also committed by Protestants in NI, but I don't recall everybody who was a Christian but not a Catholic, being tarred with the same brush.
Incredible but true.
I was brought up as a Catholic, and had a Northern Ireland Dad. There was lots of talk at the time that, as all the IRA were Catholics, therefore we were guilty as well, by association. Bombing outrages were also committed by Protestants in NI, but I don't recall everybody who was a Christian but not a Catholic, being tarred with the same brush.
