Crosswords2 mins ago
Was Nigel Farage Right In Being Concerned Over Foreigners With Hiv Being Treated Free Of Charge On Our Nhs?
49 Answers
http://
/// The Ukip leader has previously talked about “HIV tourism” in his latest book, The Purple Revolution, claiming that the Terrence Higgins Trust lobbied Cameron’s wife Samantha in order to secure treatment for “any foreigner with HIV courtesy of the British taxpayer”. ///
/// The Ukip leader has previously talked about “HIV tourism” in his latest book, The Purple Revolution, claiming that the Terrence Higgins Trust lobbied Cameron’s wife Samantha in order to secure treatment for “any foreigner with HIV courtesy of the British taxpayer”. ///
Answers
“I'm disappointed that you too have been taken in by Farage's sleight of hand.” I’ve not been taken in at all, sp. In fact, I've been taken in to a far lesser degree than those who blindly believe that the only way in which the UK can prosper is to allow hundreds of thousands of people annually to arrive and settle here. As I said in my previous post, I don’t...
13:15 Fri 03rd Apr 2015
Aside, may I say to the ABer who criticised myself and another ABer for copying and pasting another's post, the one of which we are answering, the answer is simple.
It is for the similar reason that we are encouraged to supply a link to a thread we are entering, so it is to make others aware of who and what we are replying to.
It is for the similar reason that we are encouraged to supply a link to a thread we are entering, so it is to make others aware of who and what we are replying to.
“The figure he gave referred to diagnoses, not treatments.”
Even if, as you contend jno, that the cost of treatment is collected (and I would suggest it is highly unlikely that this is true in all but a small minority of cases) why on earth should a diagnosis be free? It obviously costs quite a considerable sum to properly diagnose something like HIV so why should the UK taxpayer pick up the bill for that medical attention provided to foreigners?
I simply cannot understand why so many people in this country are so in love with unfettered immigration and all it brings with it. Every day stories abound of people being disadvantaged because of the immense strains being placed on public services. This is particularly so of the NHS. Even if foreigners pay for their treatment (and I would suggest that most of them do not) it still uses resources that UK taxpayers have funded. The NHS is not set up as a private healthcare provider for all and sundry to come and use. It cannot cope with the settled population already here. The argument that “it’s OK because foreigners pay for their treatment” is ludicrous. When patients in the UK “go private” and pay for their treatment howls of horror are heard if that treatment is provided in a private ward in an NHS establishment. Why should it therefore be acceptable for foreigners to come to the UK and do the same. It suggests that when I go to hospital having had a heart attack and I have to wait longer be seen because my NHS hospital is treating paying foreign patients it quite in order for me to snuff it.
The UK is being taken for an enormous ride and whilst Mr Farage may embellish the facts to further his argument, he does not have to embellish them very much.
Even if, as you contend jno, that the cost of treatment is collected (and I would suggest it is highly unlikely that this is true in all but a small minority of cases) why on earth should a diagnosis be free? It obviously costs quite a considerable sum to properly diagnose something like HIV so why should the UK taxpayer pick up the bill for that medical attention provided to foreigners?
I simply cannot understand why so many people in this country are so in love with unfettered immigration and all it brings with it. Every day stories abound of people being disadvantaged because of the immense strains being placed on public services. This is particularly so of the NHS. Even if foreigners pay for their treatment (and I would suggest that most of them do not) it still uses resources that UK taxpayers have funded. The NHS is not set up as a private healthcare provider for all and sundry to come and use. It cannot cope with the settled population already here. The argument that “it’s OK because foreigners pay for their treatment” is ludicrous. When patients in the UK “go private” and pay for their treatment howls of horror are heard if that treatment is provided in a private ward in an NHS establishment. Why should it therefore be acceptable for foreigners to come to the UK and do the same. It suggests that when I go to hospital having had a heart attack and I have to wait longer be seen because my NHS hospital is treating paying foreign patients it quite in order for me to snuff it.
The UK is being taken for an enormous ride and whilst Mr Farage may embellish the facts to further his argument, he does not have to embellish them very much.
AOG we cant adopt Australia policy while in EEC but we can apply Conservative pledge, below.
//making it much tougher for illegal immigrants to remain in the UK by restricting access to work, housing, benefits, healthcare, bank accounts and driving licences//
https:/
//making it much tougher for illegal immigrants to remain in the UK by restricting access to work, housing, benefits, healthcare, bank accounts and driving licences//
https:/
No AOG - Nigel Farage was wrong.
The figures he's referring to do not represent 'health tourism'.
"He went on to claim that 60% of the 7,000 people diagnosed with HIV every year in the UK were born abroad."
That's meaningless.
My mother and father were born abroad, but have been in the UK for over sixty years.
What Farage is doing, is lumping all people who come to the UK into one category, whereas there are various kinds of immigrant - short term, long term, permanent, illegal, asylum seeker, student.
What Farage needs to do is breakdown that figure of 4,200 to determine which fall into the category of 'health tourist'.
But of course, I doubt whether he would do that.
The figures he's referring to do not represent 'health tourism'.
"He went on to claim that 60% of the 7,000 people diagnosed with HIV every year in the UK were born abroad."
That's meaningless.
My mother and father were born abroad, but have been in the UK for over sixty years.
What Farage is doing, is lumping all people who come to the UK into one category, whereas there are various kinds of immigrant - short term, long term, permanent, illegal, asylum seeker, student.
What Farage needs to do is breakdown that figure of 4,200 to determine which fall into the category of 'health tourist'.
But of course, I doubt whether he would do that.
sp, I don't think anyone is bring taken in by Farage, we all have eyes and ears and can see what is happening in this country. I live in a very highly populated area which mass RECENT immigration has taken its toll. We are not talking about immigrants that settled here 60 odd years ago, but in the here and now.
whiskeryron; Re. doctors not having a "proper" wage.
'Although individual salaries will not be published, it will give patients a much better idea of how much their doctor is taking home. Family doctors who are partners in their surgeries earn an average of £102,000 a year – and one in ten earns more than the Prime Minister's salary of £142,500.30 Sep 2014'
Back to the topic; The obvious answer is not to allow anyone into the country as a tourist without evidence of health insurance. Sorted!
sp1814
/// What Farage needs to do is breakdown that figure of 4,200 to determine which fall into the category of 'health tourist'. ///
/// But of course, I doubt whether he would do that. ///
And neither are the three other main parties also, best to just stifle debate by putting in the 'Racist' bracket, that is until such time they have to discuss it in the open, just as they did regarding immigration per-Se.
/// What Farage needs to do is breakdown that figure of 4,200 to determine which fall into the category of 'health tourist'. ///
/// But of course, I doubt whether he would do that. ///
And neither are the three other main parties also, best to just stifle debate by putting in the 'Racist' bracket, that is until such time they have to discuss it in the open, just as they did regarding immigration per-Se.
AOG
I am not sure what your posts means. From what I can see, we're all debating what Mr Farage has said. I've made a point that he's conflating long term immigrants with health tourists and now you're responded with a non-sequiter.
Let's not fall into the trap of banging on about racism yet again, and discuss Mr Farage's comments.
Do you see what I mean about his figures?
I am not sure what your posts means. From what I can see, we're all debating what Mr Farage has said. I've made a point that he's conflating long term immigrants with health tourists and now you're responded with a non-sequiter.
Let's not fall into the trap of banging on about racism yet again, and discuss Mr Farage's comments.
Do you see what I mean about his figures?
“I'm disappointed that you too have been taken in by Farage's sleight of hand.”
I’ve not been taken in at all, sp. In fact, I've been taken in to a far lesser degree than those who blindly believe that the only way in which the UK can prosper is to allow hundreds of thousands of people annually to arrive and settle here.
As I said in my previous post, I don’t doubt Mr Farage’s figures have been distorted in some way – that’s what (all) politicians do. However, there is no doubt (and I don’t think it’s disputed by anybody) that “health tourism” is prevalent in the UK. We could argue over its extent, but it exists, I would suggest, to a far greater degree than in most other countries which offer healthcare free at the point of delivery. A large proportion of this expenditure goes on people either (a) with no right to settle here at all or (b) who have recently settled here under the ridiculously lax controls (for those from outside the EU) and complete lack of control (from within the EU).
I’m not talking about people who have been here for sixty years and have made a valuable contribution to the UK (and who arrived when the rate of immigration was a trifle more manageable). I’m not talking about doctors and nurses (though no thought seems to have been given to the effect on their native countries that sucking out of them many, many qualified healthcare professionals has). I’m talking about unskilled people who come to the UK with no job, who want to chance their arm at securing a better life, and for whom many the reality of that El Dorado means working for a gangmaster at about half the minimum wage, living eight to a room in a converted garage and cutting cabbages for twelve hours a day in a Norfolk field.
If anybody thinks to allow uncontrolled numbers of these people has no adverse effect on public services and infrastructure they should wake up. If they do not already know it there is plenty of information (not all from Mr Farage or the Daily Mail) to help them understand.
I’ve not been taken in at all, sp. In fact, I've been taken in to a far lesser degree than those who blindly believe that the only way in which the UK can prosper is to allow hundreds of thousands of people annually to arrive and settle here.
As I said in my previous post, I don’t doubt Mr Farage’s figures have been distorted in some way – that’s what (all) politicians do. However, there is no doubt (and I don’t think it’s disputed by anybody) that “health tourism” is prevalent in the UK. We could argue over its extent, but it exists, I would suggest, to a far greater degree than in most other countries which offer healthcare free at the point of delivery. A large proportion of this expenditure goes on people either (a) with no right to settle here at all or (b) who have recently settled here under the ridiculously lax controls (for those from outside the EU) and complete lack of control (from within the EU).
I’m not talking about people who have been here for sixty years and have made a valuable contribution to the UK (and who arrived when the rate of immigration was a trifle more manageable). I’m not talking about doctors and nurses (though no thought seems to have been given to the effect on their native countries that sucking out of them many, many qualified healthcare professionals has). I’m talking about unskilled people who come to the UK with no job, who want to chance their arm at securing a better life, and for whom many the reality of that El Dorado means working for a gangmaster at about half the minimum wage, living eight to a room in a converted garage and cutting cabbages for twelve hours a day in a Norfolk field.
If anybody thinks to allow uncontrolled numbers of these people has no adverse effect on public services and infrastructure they should wake up. If they do not already know it there is plenty of information (not all from Mr Farage or the Daily Mail) to help them understand.
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