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Why Can We Not Know Identity Of This Savage?
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Old enough murder, not old enough that we can know who it is!
Old enough murder, not old enough that we can know who it is!
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youngmafbog - "... I just hope you are right jim and someone sees this person for what he is; a twisted cold blooded murderer"
Someone did - or more acurately, some people did - the legal system.
I fail to see why anyone needs to know the name of this individual. he is clearly seriously mentaly disturbed, and assessments made during his incarceration will probably mean he is not released.
In the mean time, his family have to try and pick up the pieces of their shattered lives, and the less public intrusion into that process, the better for all concerned.
The murderer is in prison, probably for life - what else do you want?
Someone did - or more acurately, some people did - the legal system.
I fail to see why anyone needs to know the name of this individual. he is clearly seriously mentaly disturbed, and assessments made during his incarceration will probably mean he is not released.
In the mean time, his family have to try and pick up the pieces of their shattered lives, and the less public intrusion into that process, the better for all concerned.
The murderer is in prison, probably for life - what else do you want?
TTT - this young man is not a 'savage', he has committed a dreadful murder because he is quite possibly a sociopath, maybe even a psychopath.
His action is certainly savage, but he is the product of a loving home, and his mental condition has created this terrible situation.
Knowing his name, the same as labeling him with unppleasant epithets, solves nothing.
His action is certainly savage, but he is the product of a loving home, and his mental condition has created this terrible situation.
Knowing his name, the same as labeling him with unppleasant epithets, solves nothing.
It's the probably bit I have a problem with.
There are too many bleeding heart liberals in the legal process, plus no doubt there will be a trip to the ECHR at some point by some grasping lawyer.
On the basis parents could suffer, then answer me this. What if the parents are of an 18 year old who would be named and shamed, should they be protected too? At what age would you stop and say it is ok to name and shame due to other family members?
There are too many bleeding heart liberals in the legal process, plus no doubt there will be a trip to the ECHR at some point by some grasping lawyer.
On the basis parents could suffer, then answer me this. What if the parents are of an 18 year old who would be named and shamed, should they be protected too? At what age would you stop and say it is ok to name and shame due to other family members?
youngmafbog - "... plus no doubt there will be a trip to the ECHR at some point by some grasping lawyer."
Leave to appeal to the ECHR would only be granted in the event that there was grounds to believe that due legal process has not been followed.
Clearly it has been followed - no appeal will be entertained, either here or in Europe.
Leave to appeal to the ECHR would only be granted in the event that there was grounds to believe that due legal process has not been followed.
Clearly it has been followed - no appeal will be entertained, either here or in Europe.
youngmafbog - "// this young man is not a 'savage',//
Really?"
Yes really.
His action was savage, no argument there, but was the result of a mentally disturbed mind, so no, he is not a savage.
Whipping yourself up into a righteous rage over this is not going to help anyone, so why not calm down and move on.
Really?"
Yes really.
His action was savage, no argument there, but was the result of a mentally disturbed mind, so no, he is not a savage.
Whipping yourself up into a righteous rage over this is not going to help anyone, so why not calm down and move on.
"TTT - this young man is not a 'savage', he has committed a dreadful murder because he is quite possibly a sociopath, maybe even a psychopath"
so that's alright then we have a name for the "condition" so that rules out all other assesments does it? Yes he's a psychopath, mentaly ill perhaps or just mentally different, the other day we were told that many psychopaths live among us and are indeed often leaders abd generally useful. I guess this one failed to control it.
I prefer the term "savage".
so that's alright then we have a name for the "condition" so that rules out all other assesments does it? Yes he's a psychopath, mentaly ill perhaps or just mentally different, the other day we were told that many psychopaths live among us and are indeed often leaders abd generally useful. I guess this one failed to control it.
I prefer the term "savage".
TTT - " ... so that's alright then we have a name for the "condition" so that rules out all other assesments does it?"
Do you think calling someone a savage is an 'assessment'
Interesting.
"Yes he's a psychopath, mentaly ill perhaps or just mentally different, the other day we were told that many psychopaths live among us and are indeed often leaders abd generally useful. I guess this one failed to control it."
I'm not sure how this point relates to the debate.
Do you think calling someone a savage is an 'assessment'
Interesting.
"Yes he's a psychopath, mentaly ill perhaps or just mentally different, the other day we were told that many psychopaths live among us and are indeed often leaders abd generally useful. I guess this one failed to control it."
I'm not sure how this point relates to the debate.
-- answer removed --
TTT - "I want him named not because I care who he is but I care that the public forever are reminded of another infamous killer to go with the rest."
Do you think the public keep some kind of index of murderers and they need another name to put in the list?
I doubt, if asked, you could name twenty murderers who have committed murders in the last five years, and if you could, what on earth would that prove?
Do you think the public keep some kind of index of murderers and they need another name to put in the list?
I doubt, if asked, you could name twenty murderers who have committed murders in the last five years, and if you could, what on earth would that prove?
baz:"...why is any other criminal that does get named any different ?"
Good question. I suppose I can't really have it both ways. Perhaps the best thing to do is to change the law to remove the naming until it's lifted, or not, at the judge's discretion. We have seen in the past how naming people who have been arrested ends up with their life being ruined even if they were subsequently released without charge (e.g. that landlord whose name escapes me who was roasted by the press rather cruelly). At the moment it stands that those younger than 18 aren't named unless the judge decides otherwise -- perhaps this should be extended?
Good question. I suppose I can't really have it both ways. Perhaps the best thing to do is to change the law to remove the naming until it's lifted, or not, at the judge's discretion. We have seen in the past how naming people who have been arrested ends up with their life being ruined even if they were subsequently released without charge (e.g. that landlord whose name escapes me who was roasted by the press rather cruelly). At the moment it stands that those younger than 18 aren't named unless the judge decides otherwise -- perhaps this should be extended?
AOG - "Some liberal minders amongst us would have the word savage removed from the English language, much more right-on to describe them as 'mentally disturbed'."
It has nothing to do with being 'right on', it is a matter of adopting a mature approach to facts, not knee-jerk self-rigteous name-calling.
"I wonder if they would be so accommodating if it was a member of their family that was taken from them by the actions of a savage."
That is not the issue under debate.
I have pointed out that knowing the identity of this young man solves nothing, and calling a mentally ill individual a 'savage' similarly solves nothing.
It is possible to separate the action from the perpetrator - well, it is if you think about it and you can see through the red mist.
It has nothing to do with being 'right on', it is a matter of adopting a mature approach to facts, not knee-jerk self-rigteous name-calling.
"I wonder if they would be so accommodating if it was a member of their family that was taken from them by the actions of a savage."
That is not the issue under debate.
I have pointed out that knowing the identity of this young man solves nothing, and calling a mentally ill individual a 'savage' similarly solves nothing.
It is possible to separate the action from the perpetrator - well, it is if you think about it and you can see through the red mist.
"Do you think the public keep some kind of index of murderers and they need another name to put in the list? " - no but many do enter the public psyche and are thus instantly recognisable by the public. Thankfully these are rare but I think this murderer does rate along side, Thompson, Venables, etc for sheer savagery.
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