shooting to kill

[justineo]

The police have now admitted that the man shot dead yesterday was not involved with the attempted bombings but he didn't stop when ordered to and ran off carrying a bag, which potentially could have been a bomb. What can the police/special forces do in such a situation?  Was it the man's fault for not stopping?  What do you think?

[gerry]

If that is the case jno then why didn't he stop when he was asked to.As i said before when armed police tell you to stop you stop.This could have very well been prevented if the guy had stopped when told.

[LeMarchand]

Re the amount of shots fired, surely this is to ensure that the target is definitely dead, and not just injured but still capable of detonating a device. Obviously not the case in this instance, but probably SOP.

It's very sad that this guy was killed, but I feel that the police were acting on the best information they had, and probably did the right thing in the circumstances.

[luckyboy]

Gerry how do you know or i know that he was asked to stop, and remember they were in plain clothes with no distinguishing sign to alert the fella that they were cops...all in all a very sad and tragic incident..

[gerry]

Well according to the news report i heard on BBC news 24 on the day of the shooting.It was mentioned that the police did tell the man to stop.

[gerry]

I'm just going by the report i heard on the tv on the day of the shooting.

[netibiza]

Yes I agree with Luckyboy they were in plain clothes and Iwouldn't have stopped either. I thought he was shot after they collared him and 5 of them knelt on him and shot him in the head!!! Overkill literally.

[Oneeyedvic]

I am curious as to why the armed police are not uniformed. They can hardly blend in with a gun across their fronts, and again, I will reiterate, if I saw somebody coming after me with a gun in their hands but with no police insignia, I think I would run away.

 

Any sensible reason these people aren't uniformed?, or why there weren't uniformed officers on scene at same time?

[chompu]

 Didn't eye witnesses state they heard shouts of 'police stop'

Good practical answer, MargeB, understanding the dilemma the police face.

Interesting statement from Lord Stevens, who introduced a shoot to kill policy for terrorists when he was Met commisionner.I saw it in the News of the World of all places. Not all kiss and tell stories.

 Oneeyedvic. I think your remark about wearing a thick coat because he may have been cold is way off the mark. My wife is from Thailand,current temp 35 and I've never known her, or any of her Thai friends, to wear any outer garment in weather like we had on Thursday.

[MargeB]

I think London is hoaching at the moment with 'cleaners, roadsweepers, and newspaper vendors' in disguise, I think the arms are probably concealed nearby, maybe in a car.

Maybe it's time for them to carry caps, so that they are at least identified. I was once in an identical situation to this young man, but in the Congo. A car pulled alongside four of us, by our house, and two men got out shouting 'Police!' while pointing small handguns at us. I guess they may have been police, we just ran for our lives. If I know he doesn't have a good reason to point a gun at me, but he is doing so, I assume he is a hostile threat and run.

[nfn]

I'm with Marge on this one (for a change).

Anyone who acts as this victim did invites extreme suspicion and direct action by officers who are not only highly trained and accountable but putting their own lives at risk every time they go to work. Yes I know they chose the job and they're paid a decent whack but you still have to realise that the police were acting in the best interests of EVERYONE not just themselves.

If any good can come out of this I hope it will be that other chancers think twice before acting like a complete idiot.

[luckyboy]

'Well according to the news report i heard on BBC news 24 on the day of the shooting.It was mentioned that the police did tell the man to stop.'

Fair comment, but thats not what i heard from eyewitness reports...you see different tales, hazy recollections maybe dunno.. what to believe. 

[mfewell]

If you put plain-clothes police into uniforms they become uniformed. Possibly concealed revolvers rather than assault rifles.

I hope my own death is the right one 'in the circumstances'.

What's the betting it now all goes pc and the poor pc gets done for murder ?

I think this is not a good time to break into a run and vault over barriers in central London, but anyway may our own God go with us.

[gemmabe]

Many good points here. But he'd have had to have been living on another planet not to know that the events of the past few weeks have led to such major, increased security. If he spoke perfect English, why run from armed police? And not only run, but jump over various obstacles in the way for a fair stretch. It is a tragedy, but in my opinion the police have not killed him. He is another innocent victim murdered by those suicide bombers that the police are trying to put an end to.

Also, I think it unfair to label the officer who fired the shots "trigger happy" - if that was the case he would have shot a lot sooner. My heart not only goes out to the dead man's family, but to the police officer who now knows he shot and killed an innocent man. Surely living with that is a terrible burden to bear?

[MargeB]

Good point. I owe a terrible burden to these guys who are prepared to risk not only limb, but this type of situation for themselves, to protect our safety.

[Oneeyedvic]

chompu - personally I think that everyone has a different metabolism. I can be sitting here in my lounge at normal temperature wiht my wife next to me freezing. Everyone I know feels the cold in differeent ways. If someone is cold, they usually wear a coat.

Let me remind you that he was innocent. He was (in my opinion) obviously wearing a coat because he was cold!

[louadams6]

Havent read all of the answers on here but have read enough to get the general idea of what is being felt by most people. It is a very sad incident.

Just a thought, if a gang of plain clothed police chase you armed, even if they are telling you to stop, with everything that is going down in London would you stop and take the risk they are who they say they are or would you just keep on running?

and another thought if the police thought he had a bomb under his clothing why did 5 policemen jump on him and pin him down and risk detonating any device they thought he was carrying on his person?

I guess we'll never know the full facts of what happened that day but it seems like it could get a whole lot worse before it gets better.

[MargeB]

Well, good question. Maybe pinning to the ground is the best way to start...gives less chance for movement. On the other hand, maybe the overriding rule is...shot to head. In that case, you'd really want someone pinning him if possible. Handguns (unless you are playing an online game) are very hard to fire to accurately hit someone's head even at fairly close range, if they are moving.

[Andy008]

As is always the case in these situations, the only people who know what really happened are those who were there.

We weren't there, so we don't know what happened.

[Peter Pedant]

I think the poor fellow thought he was being mugged

I was mugged by plain clothes police in madrid - the werent police of course but robbers, and if I hadnt been so gormless and given up my passport and money -- i would have run away !

[kempie]

Has anybody queried why a 'suspected terrorist' was allowed to travel the 2.5 miles from the flat under surveillance to the underground station before being approached by the police?