The inevitable, yet still very sad news...

[sp1814]

...Amy Winehouse has died.

Personally, I'm very sad because it looked like she had sorted herself out. Too much talent, too many demons.

[Postdog]

Sorry sp, that's pure opinion about rather than clarification. Not an opinion universaly shared either.

[sp1814]

Of course it's an opinion (with regards to th greatness of her music), but it's backed up by the fact that 'Back To Black' spent the best part of eight months in the UK top ten.

[albaqwerty]

another family is grieving their loss

[andy-hughes]

daisya - you will be far from alone in your opinion on this issue, but i think your perspective is flawed.

The very definition of the culture, and society in which Amy Winehouse lived, is that bad behaviour is seen as a part of the human condition - which is a long way from condoning or accepting it.

If you start ostracising a drug addict, where are they ever to find help and support?

Where do you draw the line? Do you (paraphrasing Dirty Harry's famous line) ostracise your neigbour because his dog wees on your lawn?

In order to operate a soceity like that, you need to find a collection of utterly moral incorruptable individuals to sit in judgement on the whole of society.

As we all know, no one, much less a group of people, exist, so we have to live with what we have.

All people are flawed individuals. We have to accept them, flaws and all, because they make society what it is - they are us, and who should be the decider of who stays within the society, and who is cast out?

I know of no-one qualified - I suggest you don't either.

[andy-hughes]

Indeed sp184 - a phrase I have invented fits here, I am sad to say - Deal with your demons - or they will deal with you.

[albaqwerty]

andy, breathe :)

I'm sorry to not be hearing what she might have producted in her 30's and older.

[ladybirder]

Me too alba, me too.

[daisya]

Andy all I am saying is that those in full public view should not have that priviledged position if they stray beyond the pale. Of course no one is perfect, that's a condition of the human kind, but to get help people like her should not be seen as being held in high esteem, then maybe, just maybe away from the demands of gushing public praise, they may just get the help they need. It's a terrible thing for anyone to have to go through and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, we all have to accept our failings but away from the public domain IMO. Helps the person themselves and society in that they aren't seen to be an idol to follow. Sorry but that's my opinion and I accept your condemnation of it as you too are more than entitled to yours. <smile>

[ladybirder]

daisya, love for Amy was far from universal, not everyone held her in high public esteem. There have been many many vitriolic comments about her in the papers, especially in readers' comments where she has been called some awful names which I shan't repeat here. In fact the nasty usually outweighed the good. I don't think Amy could help herself, as nor could many others before her.

[Craftypig]

I really can't get my head around all this "Amy Winehouse was talented" what talent exactly? She has done nothing musically for five years, she has however stuck two fingers up at her family and friends that have tried to help her through her self inflicted problems. Time after time she has performed at various festivals and concerts in her typical drug and alcohol fueled condition. Boo'ed of stage several times by the very people that idolise her, what does that tell you about her attitude to her fans?? I make no apologies for my realistic view of her but when you look at the big picture ie dozens murdered in Norway, starving kids in Africa and god knows what else around the world Amy Winehouse was a self absorbed person that couldn't see beyond the end of her own nose. all this "talented" twaddle is nothing more than a case of the kings new clothes.

[andy-hughes]

daisya - the responsibility for being a 'role model lies less with the individual, than with the media and society who create that concept.

As Paul McCartney memorably said to a journalist when questioned about his use of drugs - "I won't tell anyone if you don't ..." and that is the route of the issue.

Personally, I think Amy Winehouse was the very best anti-drug message we have had for a very long time. Her tragically short life shouted loud and long -'This is what happens when you do heroin, you go from being a seriously talented and respected artist into a wreck of a human being who is killing herself in public' - what better example could you need?

Amy Winehouse was held in high esteem as a musician, not as a drug addict. I don't believe that a sixty-plus year-old art form seriously encourages young people that drugs are glamorous and famous people are to be imitated in their consumption. People don't get drugs from pop stars, they get them from their friends. They don't take drugs because famous people do, they do it to fit in with their peer group.

So, Amy Winehouse received a level of fame for her talent, and a far greater level of disgust and public aprobation for her drug use - seems to me that's about right.

No need to ostracise her, she tragically managed that all by herself.

[albaqwerty]

Craftpig, whether you like her music or not, she had a wonderful voice and had a talent.

[Craftypig]

Wonderful voice's are ten-a-penny in the music industry, that doesn't make her talented at all.

[albaqwerty]

So you didn't like her and thought her talent (or lack thereof) makes her ten-a-penny, fine.

I think the loss is bad enough without folk saying not-so-nice things.

[andy-hughes]

True craft-pig - it's the ability to write like that, and then interperet like that which makes her so talented.

Leona Lewis has a wonderful voice - and the interperetation skills of a paper clip.

That's the difference.

[Quassia]

Gutted to hear the news. Loved her voice!

[ladybirder]

She won 6 grammys for Back to Black. Just because you don't like her doesn't mean she has no talent cp.

[albaqwerty]

Leona Lewis is not talented. She can sing a bit and that's all imo.

Could we get back to chatting about Amy please.

[vodkancoke]

Andy, Leona Lewis also has the personality of a paper clip!

Yes Amy had problems, they were well documented. But why chastise the poor girl for being weak?? She was unhappy and troubled..anyone could see that. I cant imagine what her poor family are going through. I think everyone should be grateful they are not in their position right now.

[Craftypig]

Again with reference to her writing abilities, there are many musicians that can and do write great songs, they are all in the same boat there is nothing about her that makes her unique.