J S: A British Horror Story

[tiggerblue10]

I watched this on Netflix today and wished I hadn't as it was uncomfortable viewing. Felt sick and angry with some of the graphic detail given by some of his poor victims who have been scarred for life.

Growing up in the 70s and 80s I'd never heard of pedophilia and the first time I did was in a series of Prime Suspect in the early 90s with a very young Danny Dyer. I obviously led a sheltered life up till then and couldn't believe such hideous things like that actually happened. I don't remember seeing cases like that on news and now realise how much of it was covered up.

[Giggsie]

I watched sunshine and oranges on prime today about the children that were shipped off to Australia very sad and what some of theses children and some adults went through.worth a watch.

[barry1010]

I couldn't watch that programme.

You might not have heard of paedophilia when you were growing up, tigger, but you must have been aware of it. There were public information films in the adverts aimed at children warning of 'stranger danger', 'Charlie Says' told children not to go with strange men who wanted to show you puppies, don't accept sweeties from strangers.
You were probably aware of the 'moors murders' - Brady and Hindley were murdering paedophiles although contemporary news reports seemed to supress the sexual nature of the crimes, focusing on the brutality.

My mother had got the idea in to her head that my sisters were in danger of being kidnapped by 'white slave traders' for sex. I don't know if the slaves were white or the kidnappers, nor where she got the idea from but I don't think she was the only parent worried about it. I don't know where the idea sprang from.

As children we were warned about strange men (never strange women) but I don't remember these men being labelled - I never heard the term 'paedophile' or 'child abuser'; in my later teens I heard 'kiddie fiddler' and knew exactly what was meant without explanation.

I don't think the news deliberately suppressed reports of paedophilia - at that time children were simply not believed if they did report abuse, and very few cases got to court. No arrests, no court case, no news report. Thankfully times have changed and historical cases of abuse are being dealt with, such as Marcus Marcussen, a Birmingham teacher who abused many boys in the 70s and became the oldest paedophile to be jailed at 91.

[burlyshirley]

There was a programme on freeview last week about Saville and the thing that shocked me the most was when a lady came on and recounted what happened to her as a young teenager when she appeared on TOTP with Saville as the host. She was stood next to him on camera and as he was talking to the camera, he snaked his hand under her skirt and into her knickers. They showed the clip and there the poor girl was, squirming around and trying to pull away with a bemused look on her poor face and he just carried on talking and smiling at the camera !!! None of the other kids around seemed to notice and just carried on as normal. It was an absolutely unbelievable bit of film, and what was even more unbelievable was the fact that he KNEW he would get away with it and that no-one would challenge him. I tried to get on his show as a young teenager, the one where he made wishes come true (can't remember what it was called), but I didn't hear back, thank God I didn't !!

[barry1010]

Jim'll Fix It, shirley

That TOTP footage was all over the media a while back, it was shocking. This from 2012 https://news.sky.com/story/savile-molested-teen-during-top-of-the-pops-10465419#:~:text=A%20Top%20of%20the%20Pops,%22That's%20just%20Jimmy%20Savile.%22

[10ClarionSt]

Giggsie, Oranges and Sunshine was mentioned in the Independent Inquiry Into Child Abuse, which is still ongoing. The Child Migrants Trust, whose head is Margaret Humphries, is still, to this day, trying to re-unite some child migrants with their families. See here:

https://www.childmigrantstrust.com/

I felt tenuously connected to this situation because my dad was in the care of Dr. Bernardos when he reached his 14th birthday in 1935. They told him that as he was now of working age, he was no longer their responsibility, so he could either join the merchant navy or go working on a farm in Australia, South Africa or Canada. As young as he was, he said he knew if he went abroad, he was unlikely ever to get back, so he joined the Merchant Navy and when he reached 16, joined the Royal Navy. He was lucky to be a given a choice. Many were just shipped out but I think they wanted quieter children who would cause no fuss, and my dad wasn't like that, so he was never selected.

All of this, with the full co-operation of governments. Child abusde at the highest level, for which no-one will ever be charged. Probably.

[burlyshirley]

Yes, that was it, thanks barry.

[naomi24]

I wouldn't watch it.

[barry1010]

This is very informative re enforced child migration https://www.childmigrantstrust.com/our-work/child-migration-history

10C, who did you think should be charged?

[10ClarionSt]

//10C, who did you think should be charged?//

Well, anyone who is still alive that had anything to do with it. There are plenty of survivors from the child migration scheme, so perhaps there are also some "officials" alive too. I think that is trying to be determined by the Inquiry Into Child Abuse, which is still ongoing. Actually, Child Migrants were the first issue that the inquiry dealt with, and Margaret Humphries gave evidence.

[barry1010]

Even the typists that processed the paperwork, 10C?

[Peter Pedant]

god we were told not to go near whistling Johnnie or Peter Stone who were the village idiots. Whistling Johnnie was the delivery man for Mrs lassom....
it is a draymer - J.S. the real story - full of ironic asides " I am not who you think I am" etc

will NOT feature the matron of booth hall children's
" that man will NOT come into this hospital again!"

WILL feature the matron of St goolies, 'come in Jimmy and play the fiddle" ( jimmy makes wide eyes and grunts) "with the little children"
it is what st goolies is for....etc

[tiggerblue10]

Yes Barry, I remember all the awareness films and being told not to accept lifts off strangers but the sexual abuse element of it was not really mentioned. The youngsters involved were too scared but may not have realised that what he was doing was wrong and wouldn't say anything. Who would believe them anyway. This is why JS got away with it for so long.

[Peter Pedant]

One old patient told me he had been abused at Bernardo's 1900-1910 - yes that long ago ( I was 20 and it was then 70 y before)
and my brudda said: - "no purchase or article in that: everyone knows that"
oh
Middle of middlesbrough
remember they fired the doctors who said they were being abused ( the kids that is!)
Dame jarnet made a permanent injunction - "thou shalt not ask t he kids if they were ever abused from now on"

the judge found - a third were a third were net and a third may have been
and NOW ( hold it isnt there an injunction saying you can't.....)
a half were and a half may have been....

so Marietta Higgs when she said " we were right all along" (no job remember) was....er..... right all along

[Peter Pedant]

and the idea remember is ..... that no one had any idea
carry on boys and girls
there are some AB experts on rewriting history....

[barry1010]

Talking of 'carry on' reminds me that one of the stars of those films had to be kept away from young boys as he was a sexual predator.

[Sqad]

" You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you cant fool everybody all of the time"

Well that aphorism has been blown out of the water by a certain J.S.

I do not condone the unacceptable sexual behaviour of this man either as a paedophile or molester of women.

I knew J.S when I was a junior doctor at L.G.I and as a Consultant at Scarborough hospital.
This was in the late 60's and early 70,s and he was revered and treated like royalty even though his propensity for young girls was well known.

Society accepted this, did nothing about it and must take some reponsibilty in this scandal of the century.

Stoke Mandeville Spinal Unit was like a broken down farm house, a horse stable, it was not fit for purpose and JS raised more than £30 million in double quick time and produced a modern Unit which became famous the whole world over.......not from taxes, but from money raised by one man...Jimmy Saville.
He also worked one day a week at the Leeds General Infirmary for at least 2 decades, which was no mean feat.
His charity work is undeniable.

Yes, he was an odd character and yes he had a flawed outlook on life and yes he was rightly punished.....albeit post mortem.

Society must accept it's share of the blame, as everyone knew, everyone accepted it and everyone turned a blind eye.

Yes, I did watch rhe programme and yes I had first hand experience of J. Saville.

[aelmpvw]

//He also worked one day a week at the Leeds General Infirmary for at least 2 decades, which was no mean feat//
i suspect the motive for that was to give him access to vulnerable victims?

[Barsel]

As a teenager, I would go to a place called The Plaza in Manchester for the lunchtime dance sessions. Jimmy Saville worked there as DJ and I think, assistant manager.
Although I didn't do this myself, a lot of young girls would cram around the stage to be near to the DJ 's and Saville would lap it up.
I remember seeing him being driven down the street in an open top Cadillac sitting on the back seat with a girl on either side of him, big cigar in his mouth and his arms around the girls.
All the girls thought he was wonderful.
Little did we know then what he would turn out to be.

[Sqad]

Barsel......I had a similar experience,as in Scarborough there was a club called the Candlelight Club (now closed down) and Jims's white Rolls Royce was outside with the hood down and young scantily dressed girls were just sitting in the backseat waiting for him to come out..........

[Barsel]

Sqad It's what a lot of young girls were like back then.
Not just with DJ's, but often the singer in the band.
The girls would throw themselves at them and perhaps this is where it all started for Saville.