Court

[Cocopops123]

Hi does anyone know how long someone can get for fraud or theft from a person 50k

[New Judge]

Is it fraud or is it theft or are you just speculating?

[Cocopops123]

It started of as theft from a person now 3 counts of fraud up to 50k

[Buenchico]

With a loss to the victim of £50k, the offence starts out as 'Category 3' within the 'Harm' part of the calculation used by judges. However if the effect on the victim is particularly detrimental it can be seen as a 'Category 2' offence.

If 'culpability' is seen as 'low' (e.g. because the fraud came about through an unplanned, opportunistic offence) a Category 3 offence would typically result in a sentence of around 6 months imprisonment (with a range that goes from a community order up to a year's imprisonment available to the judge). For a Category 2 offence the starting point sentence would be 18 months imprisonment (with an available range of 6 months to 3 years).

If 'culpability' is seen as 'medium' a Category 3 offence would have a starting point of 18 months (with a range of 6 months to 3 years). A Category 2 offence would have a starting point of 3 years (with a range of 18 months to 4 years).

If 'culpability' is seen as 'high' (e.g. because there had been an abuse of trust, as in when a financial adviser defrauds a client or where fraudulent activity had persisted over a long period) a Category 3 offence has a starting point of 3years (with a range of 18 months to 4 years), whereas a Category 2 offence has a starting point of 5 years (with a range of 3 to 6 years).

Summarised from the actual document which judges must refer to, here:
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/Fraud-bribery-and-money-laundering-offences-Definitive-guideline2.pdf

[Buenchico]

NJ:
There are some further details of the offence in earlier threads here (which you've actually contributed to):
https://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/members/cocopops123/

[Cocopops123]

Thanks since waiting for court date for sentencing he has since become ill with neuropathy and other things which is to do with diabeties he has quiet few falls and when he was meant to appear in court twice before he was in hospital he is now struggling to walk and his solicitor knows this he is on 2 crutches and prone to falling he is expected in court Monday he's having to travel on 3 trains he has had a physiotherapy appointment come through to help him next Wednesday he told his solicitor and said to him should I cancel it or keep it he's been waiting since June and if he doesn't have it will have to be refereed back to gp and put to back of que again I know he won't be safe on train I don't drive so I can't take him I have kiddies and it's half term so need to be with them think thus is all wrong not letting someone get better first any ideas on what to do next please

[fiction-factory]

I know you want to help your friend but I would leave it to his solicitor as he knows more of the details than we do and can advise on whether it is possible to get the case postponed again

[fiction-factory]

In my experience it's quite common for those charged with offences like this to turn up on crutches or in wheelchairs, so I think the chances of the court being sympathetic may be less than you think. Has the £50000 been recovered from him, out of interest, or there still some doubt about whether he took the money?

[Cocopops123]

No he pleaded guilty this is for sentencing but he can't hardly walk his doctors have said he's not fit to travel when he gets his sick note but there still making him travel which is 100 miles away

[fiction-factory]

Can he get a taxi? Anyway, hopefully his solicitor will do his or her best for him

[fiction-factory]

I thought defendants could waive the right to attend sentencing, but the solicitor will know

[New Judge]

"I thought defendants could waive the right to attend sentencing..."

Not if they face a custodial sentence or a community order. They have to be there and if they are not (without reasonable excuse) a warrant without bail will be issued.

[fiction-factory]

Yes NJ, I am sure you are right. i was thinking of more minor offences.