Does Anyone Remember When The Nanny...
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Cost Of A Will
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What is the going rate for a simple will which stipulates all money and possessions to be shared equally between two children?
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I don't actually know the answer to the question because I do not draft Wills for a living. I sort the cock ups out when it all goes wrong. However, I should imagine you can get a perfectly good Will for £100 + VAT.
I MUST correct some of the utterly incorrect answers on this thread though.
Firstly, the correct bit. Fred is correct - albeit a slight imperfection. The testator must sign (or acknowledge his signature) in the presence of two witnesses. The witnesses must sign in the presence of the testator but not necessarily each other. The "Attestation" clause at the end of the Will should recite this. Because it doesn't on HC's draft there will be a cost in the long run. Had that Will been drafted and signed like that, before Probate was granted the Probate Registry would require an affidavit of due execution before the Grant would issue. Plus then there is the problem that previous Wills have not been revoked. OK, there might not be any previous WIlls, but unravelling all this in 20 years time is going to be a nightmare.
HC also makes the point:-"Daisy, if these conditions apply to you at the time of your death:
You are not married;
You do not have a live in partner who is financially dependent on you;
You are not financially supporting one child but not the other
You do not need a will. The rules of intestacy mean that your two children will inherit equally."
Yes correct, the two children will inherit equally under the law of intestacy. However, it is irrelevant whether there is financial support to one child and not the other or if there is any other financial dependent. The rules of intestacy still apply (just as equally it wouldn't matter if you had made a will). The factors to which HC refer to are two of the potential claims under the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975.
It is suggested that if there is no WIll Probate is not necessary - I recently typed out a long post on this so I'll find it a C&P it in a minute.
It was also suggested that the banks will not release money without a Grant. That depends on the size of the estate. Under the Administration of Estates (Small Payments) Act 1965, the banks can release up to £5k on receipt of an indemnity - so no grant necessary. They will in fact release up to £15k on receipt of an indemnity (and a carefully worded letter). I've just done this with my great uncle's estate - although eventually we needed a grant because my great aunt discovered he had a chunk of shares she didn't know about.
Daisy, I'm a bit concerned that your draftsman hasn't asked what is to happen if one of the children predeceases you. THe normal rule under s33 Wills Act 1837 is that gifts to children who predecease do not lapse (unless there is contrary intention in the will) and instead go to their children. what if one child dies first? What if you all die together? You ought to consider substitutional gifts.
I shall C&P my previous post now.
Any questions, I'll be around tomorrow.
I MUST correct some of the utterly incorrect answers on this thread though.
Firstly, the correct bit. Fred is correct - albeit a slight imperfection. The testator must sign (or acknowledge his signature) in the presence of two witnesses. The witnesses must sign in the presence of the testator but not necessarily each other. The "Attestation" clause at the end of the Will should recite this. Because it doesn't on HC's draft there will be a cost in the long run. Had that Will been drafted and signed like that, before Probate was granted the Probate Registry would require an affidavit of due execution before the Grant would issue. Plus then there is the problem that previous Wills have not been revoked. OK, there might not be any previous WIlls, but unravelling all this in 20 years time is going to be a nightmare.
HC also makes the point:-"Daisy, if these conditions apply to you at the time of your death:
You are not married;
You do not have a live in partner who is financially dependent on you;
You are not financially supporting one child but not the other
You do not need a will. The rules of intestacy mean that your two children will inherit equally."
Yes correct, the two children will inherit equally under the law of intestacy. However, it is irrelevant whether there is financial support to one child and not the other or if there is any other financial dependent. The rules of intestacy still apply (just as equally it wouldn't matter if you had made a will). The factors to which HC refer to are two of the potential claims under the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975.
It is suggested that if there is no WIll Probate is not necessary - I recently typed out a long post on this so I'll find it a C&P it in a minute.
It was also suggested that the banks will not release money without a Grant. That depends on the size of the estate. Under the Administration of Estates (Small Payments) Act 1965, the banks can release up to £5k on receipt of an indemnity - so no grant necessary. They will in fact release up to £15k on receipt of an indemnity (and a carefully worded letter). I've just done this with my great uncle's estate - although eventually we needed a grant because my great aunt discovered he had a chunk of shares she didn't know about.
Daisy, I'm a bit concerned that your draftsman hasn't asked what is to happen if one of the children predeceases you. THe normal rule under s33 Wills Act 1837 is that gifts to children who predecease do not lapse (unless there is contrary intention in the will) and instead go to their children. what if one child dies first? What if you all die together? You ought to consider substitutional gifts.
I shall C&P my previous post now.
Any questions, I'll be around tomorrow.
This is what I said about probate on this thread:-http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Law/Civil/Question1224412.html#answer-7818831
If I can also correct a common misunderstanding. "Going to Probate" is something that most estates will need to do - it is not dependent on there being a Will. It is dependent on the value of the estate. Only small value estates or cases where the only asset is a property which is inherited by the surviving joint tenant(s) won't need a Grant.
You get a Grant of Probate where there is a will with executors; you get a Grant of Letters of Administration with Will Annexed where there is a Will but no executors; you get a Grant of Letters of Administration if there is no Will. Generically these are known as Grants of Representation; colloquially they are know as "going to Probate".
If I can also correct a common misunderstanding. "Going to Probate" is something that most estates will need to do - it is not dependent on there being a Will. It is dependent on the value of the estate. Only small value estates or cases where the only asset is a property which is inherited by the surviving joint tenant(s) won't need a Grant.
You get a Grant of Probate where there is a will with executors; you get a Grant of Letters of Administration with Will Annexed where there is a Will but no executors; you get a Grant of Letters of Administration if there is no Will. Generically these are known as Grants of Representation; colloquially they are know as "going to Probate".
--Tambo definitely am not au fait with the law - but if there is a will surely it shouldn't go to probate at all. --
Probate is the proving of a will as valid - so it has to be done (barring exceptions for small amounts).
If there isn't a will it can't go to probate - by definition. There's a different process involved.
I sometimes wonder how much the probate, etc, process is entirely ignored by relatives - not through dishonesty, but through total ignorance
Probate is the proving of a will as valid - so it has to be done (barring exceptions for small amounts).
If there isn't a will it can't go to probate - by definition. There's a different process involved.
I sometimes wonder how much the probate, etc, process is entirely ignored by relatives - not through dishonesty, but through total ignorance
Yes, BM, I see that saying that the witnesses sign in the presence of each other is listed as good practice, ex abundante cautela, but not strictly necessary. All the recent wills I have seen, including my own (not, of course , drafted by me ) included those words. My memory of the fuss over my own father's will must be mistaken; the refusal of probate at first must have been that the words "in the presence of the testator" and not "in the presence of each other" had been omitted. The absence of the words,however, certainly caused a lot of trouble , and would have been fatal to the will, had we not, after great efforts, traced one of the witnesses and been able to provide her statement that both witnesses were so present.Not easy some 20 or so years after the date of the will !
BM may remember the name (I've forgotten) but there was one old man who was so unkind to his daughter, whom he feared an ingrate, that he made her recite the whole of his testamentary wishes every day. When he died, the court accepted her recall of the whole lot as valid and her recital was taken as though a formal will. See, all you need to do....
There was one High Court judge, a specialist in tax, trusts and the like, who must have accumulated a very substantial sum in practice as well as a good salary and pension as a judge, who left estate valued at about a thousand pounds. Now, that was a man who knew his subject!
There was one High Court judge, a specialist in tax, trusts and the like, who must have accumulated a very substantial sum in practice as well as a good salary and pension as a judge, who left estate valued at about a thousand pounds. Now, that was a man who knew his subject!
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