Deposit

[sherrardk]

My husband takes a 30% deposit on the wood burning stoves that he installs (to try and ensure he doesn't get lumbered with one that no one else wants if the original customer changes their mind). Well, a customer has changed his mind and we wondered if we can keep some of the deposit? Thanks.

[ummmm]

Have you got anything in writing?

[sherrardk]

The original quotation states that there is a 30% deposit.

[ummmm]

Does it say non refundable?

[jackthehat]

It may be better, in future, to state that there is a 30% non-refundable deposit.
Presently, it's a bit of a grey area. You have taken a deposit for goods which the customer no longer desires, so they could argue that they are due a full refund.

Have you been lumbered with the stove?

[sherrardk]

No, it doesn't, but I thought it was obvious that a deposit was non-refundable. He doesn't want to keep it all, just the costs he incurred at having the job cancelled on the day it was meant to be done (he may well be stuck with the stove for a bit though).

[sherrardk]

We might have the stove in our house (we're not sure if the one we have currently got sitting in the fireplace will be sufficient for our needs) - and as the house is rented, it doen't matter too much if we don't like the actual look of it.

[jackthehat]

You can't unilaterally decide what is 'obvious', I'm afraid.
They may be willing to let you have 10% but I doubt if they will write-off the full 30% deposit.
I think you'll need to let this one go and tighten up your terms and conditions for the next one.

[sherrardk]

Thanks for your thoughts - I will pass them on to himself.

PS - I didnt mean to imply that I can make up the definition of words, but I asked some people at the school gates and they all thought that a deposit was non-refundable (none of us actually knows this to be true just that we would expect to lose a deposit if we cancelled something).

[jackthehat]

And I didn't mean to imply that you were........:o)

It's just that if they decided to sue, for the return of their deposit the law would take no account of what is 'usually understood or expected', it would come down to what was *contracted to*.

[DTCwordfan]

Exactly - there are some refundable deposits - for example on a gas cylinder (but you must have the receipt) and then non-refundable......the terms and conditions must clearly state which and the terms thereof.

[sherrardk]

It is in the T & C's - I don't actually work for the business so I have only got the details that my husband is providing. Was also wondering what the point is of taking/paying a deposit if it can be claimed back.

[jackthehat]

A deposit is a deposit; the return of which is open to negotiation, and in which proportion.
A non-refundable deposit leaves both parties understanding that no matter what the circumstances, it will remain with the vendor once paid.

[sherrardk]

Thanks again all - I will pass the info on to himself and he can sort it out.

[pretty_snowdrop]

If i paid a deposit for something, then i cancelled or changed my mind i woudn't expect to get the deposit back. However i admit i would try to get it back. As others have suggested make sure you have it in writing that all deposits are non refundable just to cover your back.

[bednobs]

Surely if you are ordering bespoke items (like a woodburner that fits your dimensions) if you don't want it anymore you can either have the thing (in this case a woodburner) or lose the deposit

[sherrardk]

Hi Bednobs - that's why he takes a deposit, there are so many different stoves, colours, different handles, sizes, etc. He could end up ordering a really ugly beast of a thing that the customer turns round and says they don't want and he will be lumbered with it - and some of them cost £000's. He will have to tighten up his paperwork and make sure the customers know that the deposit (or some proportion of it) is non-refundable. In this particular case, he had two men at the customer's house, with all the bits needed to fit the stove so he has lost out (don't know how ugly the stove is though!).

[Nibble]

I agree with what's been said - if the deposit is non-refundable (to cover the work he has to do in identifying the stove, making it fit etc) then this must be stated in the paperwork - and IMO he should make this clear verbally too, when the client hands over the deposit.

[EcclesCake]

It might be worth himself reviewing his Ts&Cs to cover himself for the future. As this one has gone right up to the wire I'm fairly sure 30% deposit will not have covered his costs. Perhaps a x% deposit when the order is placed, a subsequent payment one week before installation that roughly covers the material costs and a final payment upon installation and acceptance by the customer that covers manpower and profit.

As others have said having water tight Ts&Cs covers your back against common (mis)understanding and assumptions and is a reassuring security blanket to fall back on when it all goes tits up. However you rarely know how watertight your contracts are until they are tested......