Employed Cowboy Builders

[Cabbieshaz]

Hi
We have paid £40,000 to builders who have done around £12,000 of works and then some of which has to be redone
The guy who initially came round portrayed the company as his saying he was one of 3 directors & they employ a project manager to each job
In fact we have since learnt the original guy was done by Thurrock council in 2010 for fraud!
And the project managers name is actually on the directorship
Can I sue original guy for fraud?
Thank you

[Captain2]

1 What Form of Contract did you sign along with your Builder?
2 You pay your Builder for work completed, not upfront - why did you pay upfront?

I probably know the answer to these questions, but let'ssee.

[bednobs]

it will depend what is in the cotract. Have they completed everything you were expecting? If you agreed to pay 40 k for the work and they have done the work they were contracted to, you have no case

[Guilbert53]

I cant believe anyone would give ANY builder £40,000 before they started work or even before they have done £40,000 of work.

All builders will be able to order materials on a 30 day payment with their building suppliers so no need for you to pay for that.

And you should not pay for ANY building work until they have done it (on a week by week basis).

The only thing you may need to pay for up front is if you are having say windows or doors made "to order" (not standard size)

[Peter Pedant]

read the top banner
advice given at owners risk

yes of course you can sue
the small claim limit is £10k and I add that you are down £28 000
this means a high court claim and moolah for fees and so on

before you continue - do you think the firm has funds up to £28k ?

anyway altho it seems like civil fraud
your action would be in contract
and yes you have a good chance ( to win )
but will you get the moolah?

the other side is - contact trading standards but they are really about something else ( preventing other people getting screwed ) and wont fight your case for you

it is hard to wave good bye to £28k but if the builder has no funds then you may be throwing good money after bad.

Bedknobs advice is almost completely wrong - you have a case no matter what the contract says
even IF there is a clause 'no action will be maintained for breach of this contract' (*)

oh and you will need a lawyer for a high court action
you are looking at paying out lots - will you get lots?

[Peter Pedant]

I dont think it is useful on a law thread to give advice
'what a fool you are for paying out that amount'

it is obvious you have done it
and the question is - how to proceed now ....

[jackthehat]

Are you complaining about the works themselves?
Do you feel that you were overcharged for the works?

Did you sign any paperwork, and if so what were the terms agreed?

The claims made by the 'directors' may be sharp practice but you will need to explain how his claims may have been tantamount to 'Fraud' when it came to your project.

[Cabbieshaz]

Thanks all for replies. Don’t know how stupid we feel. But they did staged payments & it was on total contract if £145,000. The work they’ve done is shoddy & didn’t sign contract

[jackthehat]

Never mind feeling silly..... it happens to the best of us. :o)

Have they left the job?
How 'unfinished' is the job?

Certainly don't pay them anything more and keep a photographic record of what stage the works were left.

The most important thing is making sure that your house id safe and sound. How far away from achieveing that are you?

[Cabbieshaz]

Thank you

[bednobs]

so pp if my answer is almost completely wrong, which bit is right? :) Surely if you accepted a quote for 40k for what someone else would charge 12k for then that's your look out ad not fraud?

[Buenchico]

>>> Can I sue original guy for fraud?

You can't sue anyone for fraud because fraud is a criminal offence, whereas people are sued solely for civil debts.

You can't realistically launch a private (criminal) prosecution for fraud, simply because it would cost megabucks to do so. So any criminal prosecution would have to be initiated either publicly by the Crown Prosecution Service (acting on information provided by Trading Standards and/or the police) or privately by Trading Standards directly.

You can't sue a company for debt in the County Court unless they've failed to pay an amount which is due to you. So your first step would need to be to obtain the services of an 'expert' to calculate how much the company owes you. Then you'd need to send a formal written demand, stating the amount you were demanding, detailing the reasons for the demand and making it clear that failure to pay within a specified period would result in legal action. Then, when you failed to get your money, you could lodga a claim with the County Court.

So you need to contact both Trading Standards (who might be interested in pursuing a criminal case against the company) and a solicitor (to advise you as to whether you've got a valid civil claim).