Lords Wearing Church Robes

[bodeker]

I was watching T.V. tonight and starting listening to what was happening in the House of Lords. I was very surprised to see 3 or 4 people who were dressed in Church robes and then realised that they were Lords!
I thought why are they wearing the robes ? Do Lords who are in the military wear their uniforms? Maybe I am being naive but I believed Church robes were for Church.

[Buenchico]

26 Church of England archbishops and bishops sit in the House of Lords. They do so because of their rank within the Church of England. i.e. it's not 'Fred Bloggs' who is given a seat in the House but 'The Bishop of xxxx' (who just happens to be Fred Bloggs).

All other members of the House are appointed as individuals. So the clerics wear their robes to show that they're representing the Church of England whereas other Members do not need to signify their allegiance to any particular group.

[waterboatman]

It goes back to the days when the church had far too much power over the 'ordinary' people. They really ruled the country.

[lady-janine]

don't forget the ruler amd his favourites and then the barons.

[waterboatman]

Until Henry VIII even the king didn't go against the church.

[lady-janine]

that's true. they still like to hang onto it as far as i can see.

[waterboatman]

Known collectively as The Lords Spiritual. Or away with the fairies.

[Hopkirk]

I sometimes wonder if these grown men feel silly in their fancy dress and ridiculous hats.

[naomi24]

^^ doubt it. In my experience they usually very important. ;o)

[naomi24]

*feel* very important.

[sandyRoe]

These old codgers, whether from the church, the judiciary, or the military, bring a lifetime of experience and wisdom to the debates in the upper house.

[woofgang]

Why were you surprised to see them though...I mean its not as though they hide, haven't you ever watched the state opening of parliament?

[Peter Pedant]

.

Not a bad question - do you wear different clothes for different purposes, and what is the significance ?

Buenochico as usual is firing on all guns (he in Teneriffe or somewhere)
The bishops are there as a result of their office - ex officio and not because of their name (Freddie Bloggs) which I think is in personam

I think some of the 26 rotate - Archbish of Canterbury - or +Cantuar as he calles himself - doesnt but I think Bath and Wells does for example

The Irish Peers that were, did used to elect themselves - the last one was 1922 because the Lord Chancellor of Ireland had to preside over the election and his office was abolished.

You cant be ordained and sit in the House of Commons - as that would imply two votes in an election - one for the MP and one thro the now separate org of Bishops called congregation.
I googled Eccl Commissioners of England and instead of getting a freehold covenants case, instead got the High Court agonising over this very point.

and it was the ordination bit that did it - Roman Catholics were included in the ban but Quakers (no clerical orders) werent

It dates from the time when Religion was thought to be an acceptable subject to legislate about. Act of Uniformity and so on

Church and State are not separate in this magnificent democracy, whereas they are in other countries - Republic of Ireland for example
and if your French is O level google 'laicite' in French WIki

[Peter Pedant]

Naomi - feel very important ?

blimey if they sign in, they get £500 for that day.

[Famous5]

According to www.churchofengland.org

The Archbishops of Canterbury and York and the Bishops of Durham, London and Winchester are ex-officio members of the House of Lords. The remaining 21 places on the Bishops' Bench are not determined by diocese, but are occupied by those English diocesan bishops that have served the longest.

[bodeker]

Right well, I obviously have a lot to learn about the House of Lords. Thanks for all your answers.

[Peter Pedant]

O god Famous 5 is right !
When the Church of Wales was disestablished ( those against, 1905, generated the longest word in the English language antidisestabli.........etc)

The bishops - St Davids and Another, lost their seats in the Lords.....

[janbee]

of course, there are some who just look for ANY excuse to wear drag !

[Famous5]

House of Commons (Removal of Clergy Disqualification Act 2001 allows ordained persons to sit in HoC

[Peter Pedant]

oops Clergy can sit in the House of Commons:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2001/13/notes

[ House Of Commons (Removal of Clergy Disqualification) Act 2001 ]

[Peter Pedant]

The case I was thinking about is:

House of Commons (Clergy Disqualification) Act, 1801 (Pastoral Measure) v Reverend James Godfrey MacManaway (Reasons) (JCPC) [1950] UKPC 28 (9 October 1950)

which is on Bailii - MacManaway's point was that he had been ordained by a disestablished Church of Ireland - Held: he was still disqualified.

I am at a loss to see how it came up in my search for freehold covenants. But either way I am pleased to share it with AB readers.