Halal or Kosher chicken

[Whickerman]

In the practice of producing Halal or Kosher chicken, are the birds pre-stunned?

[birdie1971]

Since there has been not response from our halal/kosher endorsing friend, I shall make this statement.

I find the argument that halal/kosher methods of slaughter are more humane than rendering the animal unconscious prior to slaughter to be utterly puerile. It is an obvious nonsense perpetrated by people who have a vested interest in maintaining their religious customs at the expense of animal welfare.

It is an absurdity to suggest that an unconscious animal 'feels' more pain than its fully conscious, religiously slaughtered, counterpart.

Kosher/halal slaughter is an unnecessary cruelty inflicted upon animals because of religious dogma. It has no place in a supposedly civilised society where it is recognised that, while we consume animal meat, we also owe that sentient creature a duty of care. And that duty of care includes – right up to the point of its death – not causing the animal unnecessary suffering.

I believe that the kosher/halal method of slaughter does not conform to that ideal and does indeed cause unnecessary suffering.

[mrs.chappie]

I once saw an undercover programme where the animals were being left for too long after stunning and a slaughterman was heard saying that the animals were starting to regain consciousness. They weren't re-stunned before the next stage in the process.

Another worker was heard saying the stun gun didn't work a lot of the time.

Someone once said "If slaughterhouses were made of glass, no-one would eat meat". I know what they mean.

Fortunately not all slaughterhouses are as unscrupulous as the one in the programme.

[237SJ]

I remember, as a child, going over to my friend`s house. Her family were farmers. Her father had killed some chickens for the local market. They were hanging upside down by their feet from the washing line and had had their throats slit. They looked like they were still struggling and her father asssured me they weren`t, it was just "the nerves". I didn`t believe him. I remember my father killing a pig in my gran`s field (it had pneumonia so had to be put down) by slitting it`s throat. There was no stunning involved. I think animals should be killed humanely (or not at all in an ideal world) but I don`t think stunning has been practiced that long in this country. If we didn`t stun animals 40 years ago, who`s to say it`s wrong for Muslims to do the same in this day and age?

[birdie1971]

Mrs.chappie – I don't doubt that what you say is true. No offence to you, but this is always how these debates go. The focus is always upon the effectiveness of stunning the animal. It is never about the slitting of the throat of a fully conscious animal. The effectiveness (or lack) of stunning is always brought to the fore whilst the 'religious' method of slaughter is conveniently forgotten about.

The bottom line is – with stunning or attempting to stun the animal with gas or a mechanical device prior to slaughter, we are deliberately going out of our way to try and reduce the suffering of the animal in question. Inevitability, mistakes will be made due to the fallibility of man. But by stunning, we are at least attempting to reduce or even eliminate the possibility of unnecessary suffering.

The halal/kosher method of slaughter makes no attempt to alleviate or negate the suffering of the animal. In fact, it prescribes it. It needs repeating because so many people seem to forget – the halal/kosher method of slaughter insists upon the animal being fully conscious whilst it is being killed. This method of slaughter cannot ever be more humane than pre-stunning. To believe the opposite is absurd.

The very idea that the halal/kosher method of slaughter is somehow more humane than stunning the animal prior to slaughter is risible.

[mrs.chappie]

A very emotive subject.

I truly don't know what to think. I have always leaned towards believing that stunning is the most humane method. My OH - who shares a strong concern for animal welfare with me - has a firm opinion that the halal method is actually kinder to the animal, as it will very quickly (within seconds?) lose consciousness due to loss of blood once its throat has been cut.

That link from j-t-p made interesting reading.

One thing we both agree on .... we could never work in an abattoir.