Halal or Kosher chicken

[Whickerman]

In the practice of producing Halal or Kosher chicken, are the birds pre-stunned?

[jackthehat]

No.

[Invictas]

This my answer to another similar question in the Law section:~
As a retired Trading Standards(Food) Officer,may I add my tuppence here?
I have witnessed both Halal(Moselm) & Shechita (Jewish) Ritual Slaughter of animals.
I can assure you that,as razor sharp instrument is used,which severs the animals main neck arteries and nerves to the brain,the animal dies almost instantly(within seconds and NOT the time you seem to think).
Contrast this with the type of slaughter that you would prefer(and is indeed used for most slaughter of animals for non Moslem & Jewish meat eaters).
This merely stuns(but does not kill the animal) the animal is then gutted (whilst still able to feel pain) I have seen many animals slaughtered in all three ways,and see they way that they react to the disemboweling,and I know which way I would prefer if I were the animal.

[DTCwordfan]

I do not care - as long as they are not battery reared - I was in Tesco HO on the day BSE officially broke out. It was pointed out that a chicken in a farmyard/garden takes some 18 months plus to get to 3 pounds and in a battery, its 6 to 8 weeks.

Now why I am growing tits?

[anneasquith]

invictas. great information. on another post someone stated it takes 20minutes for a halkal slaughtered animal to die,its really good experts can stop such rubbish being posted.

[Invictas]

Thanks anne,
My experiences(somewhat gory and grisly) don't come in handy very often,but it's nice when they do;and even nicer to correct someones wrong information.

[auntsallyann]

Believe me Anne it is not rubbish, go and you tube halal slaughter, but be careful its not for the faint hearted. If it was not so horrific then why are all our animal welfare groups wanting it banned??

[jackthehat]

They aren't.............

[mrs.chappie]

Invictas, did seeing all that gory stuff ever put you off eating meat? (Apologies if you've already answered that - I haven't read both threads).

[Invictas]

No mrs.chappie I am afraid it did not,but then you develop a very strong stomach in the line of work I was in.
In fact some restaurant kitchens nearly put me off ALL food,rather than the slaughterhouses making me not eat meat!LOL

[mrs.chappie]

Thanks Invictas. May I ask - did you retire, or just move onto another job?

[mrs.chappie]

I've seen programmes where the inspectors visit restaurant kitchens. Some of the kitchens beggar belief.

(Sorry for going off-topic, Whickerman).

[Invictas]

I was offered early retirement(in fact it was Council cuts!),with a financial package I could not ignore,and took it.

[237SJ]

There`s a website called scoresonthedoors where you can see what the local environmental health people say about your favourite restaurant. Some of the Chinese ones don`t come out too favourably

[mrs.chappie]

Hope you're enjoying your retirement, Invictas.

Don't know where you're based .... I used to go to the abattoir at Carnaby, near Bridlington, for my meat. They stopped allowing the public to buy directly from them years ago.

[jake-the-peg]

Yes they are stunned - or at least they are in the largest one in the UK

http://www.guardian.c...eligion.animalwelfare

a reporter's view of what he saw in it - apparently there is some divergence in practice.

Note though he says that there is currently a lot of non halal meat being sold as Halal - I rather suspect that this may be where this story originates from - I find it hard to believe that all those New Zealand sheep can be properly slaughtered in a halal manner.

One thing's certain there seems to be a lot of confusion about what is and is not acceptable.

[jno]

NZ could do it if they wanted - they're extremely efficient farmers - but I don't see why they'd bother to do it for all meat. Muslim markets make up about a tenth of their total.

Their annual report here: they've set up a government approved halal certification scheme, but no suggestion that it should apply to all meat

http://www.mia.co.nz/...0Report%202009-10.pdf

On the halal issue more broadly here's a (rather brain-deadening) presentation made to their meat board conference

http://www.mia.co.nz/...20Darhim%20Hashim.pdf

[birdie1971]

Invictas – I find your comments on the slaughter of animals misleading, at odds with my own personal experience and at odds with the scientific physiology.

You state that using halal/kosher methods, “... [a] razor sharp instrument is used, which severs the animals main neck arteries and nerves to the brain, the animal dies almost instantly...”.

Yet how can this be? I accept that severing main arteries will quickly kill any animal due to the rapid blood loss, but I fail to see how this method can sever the, “... nerves to the brain...”. How does that work? In all mammals, the spinal column is the main conduit which connects to the medulla oblongata (at the rear of the skull) and through which all pain responses are transmitted and received. Unless the main vertebra of the spinal column are severed, pain responses will continue to be transmitted to the brain if the animal is conscious. In order for your statement to be true, you'd have to effectively decapitate the animal.

You then contrast the halal/kosher method of slaughter with the non-halal/kosher method by stating, “... This merely stuns (but does not kill the animal) the animal is then gutted (whilst still able to feel pain)”. Again, I fail to see how you can quantify a statement such as this.

[birdie1971]

Continued....

If you stun the animal, you render it unconscious. If an animal is unconscious, it cannot feel pain. That is the reason for stunning the animal in the first place. It is also the reason why operations such as open-heart surgery can be performed on humans – the human is stunned by the use of anaesthetics, rendering the human incapable of feeling pain for the duration of the anaesthetic effect. The animal, prior to slaughter, is rendered unconscious not by anaesthetics but by the use of stunning – but the physical effect on the nervous system is identical; the animal is incapable of feeling pain.

I too, have had first hand experience with commercial animal slaughter. I have visited a number of abattoirs and seen for myself the stunning method of slaughter. I cannot concur with your apparent observation that a stunned animal feels pain as that certainly hasn't been my conclusion, nor is it the conclusion of many animal welfare organisations.

I find your supposed anecdotal evidence unconvincing and doubt its veracity.

[bentaxle]

There isn't a decent way to kill any human or creature and to mumble a few religious words before its done doesn't make it any better ,I was also brought up with slaughtermen when they had not long change from poleaxe to bolt gun now we're throat cutting 'haven't' come very far in seventy odd years have we Still if its any thing us humans are good at its killing things ,specially if you can hang a religious tag on it
all the best