Aid worker shot in Kabul for being Christian

[tiggerblue10]

Why is there so much religious hatred in the World? Why can't people respect and accept each others beliefs? Is it too much to ask for?

[birdie1971]

Jno � He posted a sarcastic response. I replied in kind. I then elaborated in my next post.

Are you saying that criticising Islam is descending in �personal abuse�?

I have said nothing abusive to him/her. I am criticising someone�s belief. If you think that�s a personal attack then I believe you are mistaken.

[terambulan]

Since the Allies have almost outwitted the Taliban (financed by Osama Bin Laden-dec'd?). Pakistan and India have seen the advantage of outing the Allies for their own takover of Afganistan.

I expect, before the Allies pull out, Afganistan will be divided between Pakistan & India as in 1947, with further bloodshed between these same 2 countries.

[R1Geezer]

jno, I think birdy has argued calmly and logically and more importantly accurately exposed the mindset of your average Muslim. I didn't see and abuse just pragmatic exposure of the facts. Well done birdy, you're welcome in the COTLDG any time.

[Quinlad]

"Normal service is resumed."

You can say that again. It always, always ends up this way.

It's like watching a group of tipsy sixth formers slapping each other's backs as they argue with the local simpleton.

[keyplus90]

jno
Wed 22/10/08
02:14 you seem to be descending into personal abuse, birdie. This is customarily seen as a sign you're losing the argument.


See my little birdie people are not that stupid however you may think so. About your long lecture, misconceptions, ex, Muslims, studied Islam, extensively and so on. I would say only one thing that even if you are what you claim you are then surely you have wasted your time.

I think you should get in touch with one of these people and sort your short coming as I am sure it is never too late as Allah does not close door of repentance until someone is no longer alive.

http://www.peacetv.tv/

[keyplus90]

Terambulan � I know what you mean. You are right about certain things but American intelligent services (as usual) calculated it wrong. Their plan was to divide Afghanistan into North and South as these two parts never got on well during the history. South are Pashtoon and Northern are group of few people who given time do not get on with each other.

American plan was to setup a base in South as Northern Afghanistan is mainly pro Russian and pro Indian. But trouble is its not easy to control South as Pushtoons have a very difficult mentality and are not easy people to control if forced. For these two reasons now Americans are in trouble. To settle in South they would need Pakistan�s help (to control Taliban who are Pushtoon) but initially they have shown Pakistan as Taliban�s enemy now. When it comes to North then they are trying to befriend with India (recent commitments were in new) but India is a close ally to Russia. So Americans do not know what to do.

[keyplus90]

Fender � exactly that is where birdie have been getting his extensive knowledge about Islam. I don�t blame him and I don�t blame you either.

When you go to Sahara Desert to learn how to swim, then what would you expect.

[keyplus90]

Fender � If you really are curious and want to know then it is a different thing. My opinion on the page, well I will ask you a question.

How would you uplift morale your soldiers as a commander in the battlefield when you have only 313 people without any proper armoury (10, 20 swords only among them) against 1000 who are the best possible way equipped. Would you not tell them that be brave and kill them as they are here to kill you.

cont:

[keyplus90]

cont:

That was just the back ground of most of these verses of Quran because there had been quite a few battles in those 13 years. Now look at why I said don�t go to desert if you want to learn swimming.

This is from that link,


The Qur'an:
Sura (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

Now have a look at this one and see if you can spot any difference,

191. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
192. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
193. And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.
Now you know why in that link they started from verse 191? Because they do not want people to see verse before that 190. And here it is,
190. Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
I can�t go through all the verses on that link because of time and limit on this website but however if you are interested then compare them with this link.

http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/Surai.htm

[keyplus90]

Also please note that in tat link they have purposly missed verse 192 as well because that is something again they do not want people to read. They jumped from 191 straight onto 193.

[birdie1971]

Quinlad � If you don�t like our exchanges, don�t read them.

Keyplus � �See my little birdie people are not that stupid...� You�re referring to the �jno� post. One person criticises me and you think that renders all of my arguments mute. As soon as I saw jno�s post I thought that you�d feel vindicated.

I�m getting bored with this. I post rational, logical arguments to your pronouncements and you either ignore them or claim they are false. Your public statements about Islam are at odds with the Koran. It�s a hate filled document, penned by a lunatic. And you still believe it?

I�ll say one thing for you Keyplus, your faith is strong. Even in the face of irrefutable facts to the contrary, you still maintain that it�s the religion of peace. God help us (pun intended).

If you want to live in the middle ages with middle age values then go right ahead. Just don�t think that the rest of the population of Britain will just fall into line and accept what you say.

[birdie1971]

R1Geezer - What's the "COTLDG"?

[keyplus90]

So what do you think my little birdie about the website fender62 has given. I know that is one of many who change verses of Quran or show half and hide half to manipulate people�s mind. It is quite clear difference there if you see.

Is that something similar to where you attained your Islamic knowledge from?

[keyplus90]

Fender � this is my last post as I know what you are trying to say. Tell me what would you do if you live in London (in this case Mecca) you suffer at the hands of a group of people for over 10 years, where you are victimised every possible way only because you started believing in a different faith, You are still advised to be patient as according to that verse in Mecca. At last when difficulties increase so much that you leave London and migrate to Glasgow with whatever you could grab.

Still those people follow you there and try to kill you, your children etc. Would you still love them as you said or would you stand up and fight to save your family and your own life. If you still can say that you would love them (your enemies) then its fine. However if you decide to stand up and say that enough is enough and we will stand and fight and kill whoever come to kill us. Then you get permission or go ahead from God who has already seen your patience but does not want to do it any more. That is where the other verses come from.

I must say you one last thing, do go and look for information from anti Islamic websites of people like Bill Warner but try to verify it with Islamic website as well. However if you are only looking for things against Islam then you do not have to do any thing. You type word �Islam� on google and 80% websites would be anti Islam.

So it all depends if you are doing it for the sake of knowledge or excuse. Even my first post was only because you said that you were curious.

Good bye.