Was reading through the various posts and wondering...

[nellypope]

Where people get this idea that God causes suffering in this world? Am worried as my teachings have taught me that it has more to do with our free will, than God causing it, but maybe wrong, can anyone who knows the bible give me the relevant parts of the bible? Thanks

[WaldoMcFroog]

�It's like God gives Christians a way out, it's not like "bow down you b******ds and worship me, or I'll cut your heads off".�

Except that�s *exactly* how it is. Worship God, or go to Hell. The Bible is entirely clear on this point, and indeed you yourself were posting verses to illustrate this precise point only a day or two ago.

�When the bible mentions god's destruction of cities and empires, it's usually because they have a pretty bad reputation, like incest for breakfast, and bestiality.�

And the justification for allowing your chosen people to rape all the virgins of a tribe you�ve just committed genocide against is..? The answer from your perspective can only be a �God moves in mysterious ways� style cop out, because there is no justification that can possibly stand up, particularly for a God that is supposedly loving.

[Theland]

How we read the Bible, and what we get from it, seems to be confined to the limitations of the evidence of its authenticity. ASHes seem to ignore such evidence and try to prove the non existence of god.
I, however, have the evidence from my and others personal experience of the change in our lives that the bible has wrought, but more convincingly, the accurate prophecies in the Bible, that cannot be explained away by atheists.
The miracle of modern Israel, its creation, and its very survival against all odds, its flourishing in spite of its enemies attempts to destroy it, and all of this written down thousands of years before?
I the prophecies are true for all but the wilfully blind to see, then why question what the bible says about God? That's where He reveals Himself.

[WaldoMcFroog]

Because dear boy, the 'prophecies' you're so fond of banging on about are either a) not prophecies at all, b) so vague that Bob the Builder could claim to fulfil them, c) wrong and d) occasionally correct. Hardly QED, is it?

[wizard69]

Theland..."ASHes seem to ignore such evidence and try to prove the non existance of god"...You CANNOT prove the NON existance of something and you know it. You cannot prove the existance of santa, the tooth fairy or the easter bunny. They are all highly unlikely but nevertheless there is always a chance that they could exist. I have never come across an atheist on here that would even attempt to 'disprove' the existance of god. The ball is in your court to prove the existance of your god, you are the one making the claim for a supernatural entity. Extraordinary claims requre extraordinary proof.

[naomi24]

Wiz, you have a point there. However, what proof can there be? It seems to me that many Christians tell us that finding religion has changed their lives, but I wonder if they had joined some other group in times of trouble, simply finding sympathetic friends would not have produced the same result.

[Praline25]

I'm gunna start at the beginning and try to answer the original question. As a believer i have had that thrown at me so many times, its one of the most popular. Why does god cause war, suffering etc. All christains/ believers never have to ask it, cause we all know, phew. I only have to look at the way unconditional love works to answer that. God made us in his own image so the way he loves is in a similiar way to the way we love. My duaghter aged 6, i dont lock in her the house and keep her in a bubble. I let her go out into the world full of danger and temptation, and she'll get hurt along the way and it'll hurt me 50 thousand times more to watch it, but i love her. Thats the only answer i have and thats enough for me.

[shaunnajadel]

I'm sorry if this offends anybody but i'm not seeing how a 'God' who can do no wrong or whatever and just created the Earth cause he wanted to.. is quite possible. Could it be that humans are the cause of this suffering and we just blame a so called God for our own faults? Correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't lust and envy sins in the bible? How on earth can humans possibly stop feeling natural emotion?

My point is that in my opinion, we just blame something that isn't even proven real for our own selfish ways.

[nellypope]

Hi praline,

Was just reading through your last post, as a Christian I also have had the "if God is love, then why all this war, anger and violence" thrown at me SO MANY times too.

Indeed I tried to answer it here. I find it really quite strange how some people don't understand, why two different people see God in such a different light, and maybe therein lies the answer, that some are not meant to "get it".

I was reading an interesting piece the other day, explaining why Jesus taught in parables, it has been suggested this was because the message is only meant for a chosen few! (obvbiously those few are quite large in number). I used to really get upset about this thinking that surely everyone has the right to Christianity, but now I see it as, many people DON'T want the right to it, and that maybe this is all part of the divine plan.

[Praline25]

Nellypope.
Christians and believers seem to see the answer to this question clearly, its plain and simple. Sadly my dad died recently and i talked to him for over 8 years about the lord i believed in, he never got it, he only believed what was put in front of him, he'd listen to scientists and experts with far-fetched theories and never doubted that at all. My dad was just an example of most people. I think everybody at heart wants all these things to be true (dad more than anybody) but were taught not to believe in things that sound to good to be true. Everlasting life and happiness sounds just too good.
My dad wanted solid evidence and proof with no flaws to make him believe, when it doesn't work like that. Its about FAITH. If god put all the answers under our nose then everybody would be forced into believing, nobody would have a choice . God wants us to love him through our own free will, our own choice. This is the only way true love can be achieved, the only way we can be saved from ourselves.
Where's the honour in making somebody love you? God loves each one of us equally, its how we love him back and honour him that makes all the difference, we put him ahead of ourselves and thank him for everything we have.

[nellypope]

Oh absolutely, its the gilded cage theory, love's value comes from freewill (I choose to love you). I'm am truly sorry about your father. My mother died three years ago, and I wish that I could have made her aware also.

The other problem with proof is it's so subjective. I wholeheartedly agree with you that the "proof" of God cannot be so apparent in this world, as we need Faith. But I wish that I could explain to people that once you believe, the proof follows, it's truly incredible, the amazing things that have happened to me are amazing. I was reading a great book the other day which is simply a collection of stories of people's miracles.

The other thing that amazes me, is how non-christians believe in the apocolypse, armmageddon, and quote (or badly quote) Revelation, but they won't believe in the rest of it. They won't even READ the rest of the bible. Incredible.