Never Believe Anything Until It Has Been Officially Denied......

[ToraToraTora]

https://news.sky.com/story/labour-frontbencher-responds-to-sir-keir-starmers-eu-comment-backlash-12966978

So Rodders wants us back in the EUSSR - reminds me of a Beatles song!

[Gromit]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/afghanistan-pen-farthing-animals-johnson-b1971289.html

[THECORBYLOON]

NAOMI, "No, [Boris Johnson] was talking about those in paid employment - in other words 'in work'.

 

The latest data for folk in employment or, “in work) show the ONS includes self-employed folk in its figures.

 

‘The number of people in employment in the UK is measured by the Labour Force Survey (LFS). The LFS adheres to international standards and definitions and, in the case of the definition of employment, these standards are those of the International Labour Organisation (ILO). For the past 40 years the ILO and the LFS have defined persons in employment as those who have completed some work in the reference week or are temporarily away from their job, such as being on holiday. The only change was in 1982 when, for operational purposes, the ILO clarified the notion of “some work” to be interpreted as “work for at least one hour”. The definition has remained the same since.’

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/thedefinitionofpersoninemployment

 

‘The UK employment rate was estimated at 75.5% in May to July 2023, 0.5 percentage points lower than February to April 2023. ***The quarterly decrease in employment was mainly driven by full-time self-employed workers.***

The estimate of payrolled employees for August 2023 is largely unchanged on the month, down 1,000 on the revised July 2023 figure, to 30.1 million. The August 2023 estimate should be treated as a provisional estimate and is likely to be revised when more data are received next month.’ [emphasis added]

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/uklabourmarket/september2023

"Perhaps the Director General has always been an employee.  People who aren't are not on anyone's payroll."

 

Perhaps the Director General knows what the ONS means by, "people in work" unlike Boris Johnson?

[naomi24]

Corby, Boris would have been given that figure by one of his aides and since statistics are in the public domain and easily verified, it's ridiculous to suggest he lied deliberately.  Furthermore, it makes no sense to include the self-employed.  They're never going to be included in unemployment figures so it's no surprise 'statistics' aren’t to be trusted.  This nonsense emanates from the same mean-spirited mentality that considers a piece of cake a party.

[douglas9401]

🙄🍰🍻🥂

[1ozzy]

Invite me to your next party Doug, looks awesome,,

[douglas9401]

You've got the wrong idea, Ozzy, that's just a memo for a policy meeting.

Easily done though. 😁

[1ozzy]

Then invite me to your next policy meeting Doug.

Surely I'll have some useful input,,

[douglas9401]

Open house mate, bring your own special adviser.

[1ozzy]

That would be my sons lunatic dog,,

Should fit in well, in AB land.

[THECORBYLOON]

NAOMI, "Furthermore, it makes no sense to include the self-employed.  They're never going to be included in unemployment figures"

 

Self-employed folk who are unemployed are included in unemployment figures.

 

“3.Flows in and out of self-employment

The biggest movement out of self-employment during the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic was driven by flows into employee status

Here we look at changes in people flowing into self-employment and out of self-employment to other labour market statuses: employees, ***unemployed*** and economically inactive.”[emphasis added]

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/articles/understandingchangesinselfemploymentintheuk/january2019tomarch2022

[naomi24]

//Self-employed folk who are unemployed are included in unemployment figures.//

 

No.

 

//The biggest movement out of self-employment during the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic was driven by flows into employee status//

 

People who move out of self-employment into employee status are no longer self-employed.

[THECORBYLOON]

NAOMI, "People who move out of self-employment into employee status are no longer self-employed."

 

That is correct because they are on a payroll but self-employed folk can also move to being unemployed and then they are included in the unemployment stats.

[naomi24]

But that also means they are no longer self-employed, Corby.  You're meeting yourself coming back with this one. 

[THECORBYLOON]

Boris Johnson was speaking about folk in work which includes those who are on a payroll and the self-employed but the figures he quoted related only to those on a payroll.

The unemployment figures include those who were employed and those who are classed as self-employed and available for work but not working.

[naomi24]

🙄

[naomi24]

Well, that^ didn't work.  

 

Corby, You're going round in circles.   

[THECORBYLOON]

That means nothing to me.

[THECORBYLOON]

Self-employed folk keep that status until they change it with HMRC.

A self-employed person is classed as self-employed until a change is notified to HMRC.

The ONS defines unemployed folk as those who are,

"•without a job, have been actively seeking work in the past four weeks and are available to start work in the next two weeks

•out of work, have found a job and are waiting to start it in the next two weeks"

That shows a self-employed person without a job but available and looking for one can be unemployed.

[naomi24]

Corby, self-employed people are not employees.  If self-employed people register as unemployed they are no longer self-employed - obviously.  You carry on if you want to.  This is ridiculous.