ChatterBank4 mins ago
criminal damage or not.
I would be interested in any comments, advice or observations.
I was working on a local housing estate, when my van was clamped by private clampers. As I believed I was legally parked I got my petrol cutter out and cut it off.
I got in my van, turned it round and drove a short distance (50m) towards the exit where my path was blocked by the tow truck. Police were called and I was arrested for criminal damage to a wheel clamp and taken away. (The wheel clamp damage is not the issue).
The police physically wrestled my van keys from me before I was taken away.
The clampers removal lorry was not man enough to lift my van parked / stopped behind the rear of the truck, due the weight, height and position of my van.
The police used my van keys to start and drive my vehicle to a position where the clampers removal lorry was able to lift my van. It took them 45 mins to get my van on there truck.
This clamping company (I S traffic management) did not attach the lifting straps / harness around the wheels because they did not reach, instead they put straps under the body of the van and lifted it. As a result they managed to do �9,000 worth of damage. The questions I have are.
1, after I cut my van free was this company obstructing my exit and if so were the police guilty of aiding them.
2, should the police allow the clampers to remove my van although I wanted a friend to have my keys to take the van home.
3, should the clampers insist I pay for removal even though at that stage it was not lifted.
4, should the police have moved my van to assist in the lifting of my van and in doing so are they party to the damage done.
5, Is this clamping company guilty of theft.
6, Is this clamping company guilty of extortion.
7, is this clamping company guilty of criminal damage.
continued.
I was working on a local housing estate, when my van was clamped by private clampers. As I believed I was legally parked I got my petrol cutter out and cut it off.
I got in my van, turned it round and drove a short distance (50m) towards the exit where my path was blocked by the tow truck. Police were called and I was arrested for criminal damage to a wheel clamp and taken away. (The wheel clamp damage is not the issue).
The police physically wrestled my van keys from me before I was taken away.
The clampers removal lorry was not man enough to lift my van parked / stopped behind the rear of the truck, due the weight, height and position of my van.
The police used my van keys to start and drive my vehicle to a position where the clampers removal lorry was able to lift my van. It took them 45 mins to get my van on there truck.
This clamping company (I S traffic management) did not attach the lifting straps / harness around the wheels because they did not reach, instead they put straps under the body of the van and lifted it. As a result they managed to do �9,000 worth of damage. The questions I have are.
1, after I cut my van free was this company obstructing my exit and if so were the police guilty of aiding them.
2, should the police allow the clampers to remove my van although I wanted a friend to have my keys to take the van home.
3, should the clampers insist I pay for removal even though at that stage it was not lifted.
4, should the police have moved my van to assist in the lifting of my van and in doing so are they party to the damage done.
5, Is this clamping company guilty of theft.
6, Is this clamping company guilty of extortion.
7, is this clamping company guilty of criminal damage.
continued.
Answers
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(2 part post):
Answers as per your numbers for the questions:
1. If you owed the clamping company money, they would have the same right to prevent you driving your van as a garage would have if you hadn't paid the bill for work done on it, so I can't see that they (or the police) were doing anything wrong.
2. As above.
3. Because you'd not paid the release fee, I would think that the firm were probably within their rights to remove the vehicle and charge you the appropriate fee.
4. Whether the police should have moved your van might depend upon where it was. (e.g.. if it was, by now, on a public highway, they could use their powers to shift a vehicle causing an obstruction). Even if they were acting outside of their powers, it's unlikely that you could do anything about it. There's no way the CPS would consider criminal action against the officers and they couldn't be held responsible, under civil law, for any damage which occurred once they'd moved it.
5. No. Refer to Answer 1. (Anyway, to be guilty of theft they would have to be seeking to permanently deprive you of your property. That's clearly not the case here).
6. No. At least, on the information which you've provided I can't see any evidence to support such a claim.
Answers as per your numbers for the questions:
1. If you owed the clamping company money, they would have the same right to prevent you driving your van as a garage would have if you hadn't paid the bill for work done on it, so I can't see that they (or the police) were doing anything wrong.
2. As above.
3. Because you'd not paid the release fee, I would think that the firm were probably within their rights to remove the vehicle and charge you the appropriate fee.
4. Whether the police should have moved your van might depend upon where it was. (e.g.. if it was, by now, on a public highway, they could use their powers to shift a vehicle causing an obstruction). Even if they were acting outside of their powers, it's unlikely that you could do anything about it. There's no way the CPS would consider criminal action against the officers and they couldn't be held responsible, under civil law, for any damage which occurred once they'd moved it.
5. No. Refer to Answer 1. (Anyway, to be guilty of theft they would have to be seeking to permanently deprive you of your property. That's clearly not the case here).
6. No. At least, on the information which you've provided I can't see any evidence to support such a claim.
7. Probably not. To get a conviction for criminal damage, the prosecution has to show that either
(a) the defendant intended to cause the damage or
(b) the defendant knew that his actions were likely to lead to the damage.
Obviously (a) wouldn't stand up in court and (b) is incredibly hard to prove 'beyond reasonable doubt'.
My advice is to put aside any thoughts of actions under criminal law. Your best hope of getting compensation is through the civil courts. Whenever anyone suffers loss or damage through the negligence of others, that person has the right to sue for compensation. It would seem that you may well have a good case for arguing that the clamping firm were negligent in not properly training their staff to avoid (or at least minimise) damage to your vehicle.
Chris
(a) the defendant intended to cause the damage or
(b) the defendant knew that his actions were likely to lead to the damage.
Obviously (a) wouldn't stand up in court and (b) is incredibly hard to prove 'beyond reasonable doubt'.
My advice is to put aside any thoughts of actions under criminal law. Your best hope of getting compensation is through the civil courts. Whenever anyone suffers loss or damage through the negligence of others, that person has the right to sue for compensation. It would seem that you may well have a good case for arguing that the clamping firm were negligent in not properly training their staff to avoid (or at least minimise) damage to your vehicle.
Chris
Thanks Chris for your reply.
All what happened took place on private property.
I was thinking along the lines that once i removed the wheel clamp, should the clampers not have to persue me through the civil court for any money i may owe or ask for compensation at my criminal trial for commiting criminal damage.
vehicle imobilisers as they are called have to attend a course and pass an exam in order to get a licence to clamp and remove vehicles, by putting straps under the body of the vehicle instead of around the wheels for stability and support they knew it would damage the bodywork therefore were being reckless.
Is anyone aware of a (citb / health and saftey )training course to operate a vehicle removal lorry
All what happened took place on private property.
I was thinking along the lines that once i removed the wheel clamp, should the clampers not have to persue me through the civil court for any money i may owe or ask for compensation at my criminal trial for commiting criminal damage.
vehicle imobilisers as they are called have to attend a course and pass an exam in order to get a licence to clamp and remove vehicles, by putting straps under the body of the vehicle instead of around the wheels for stability and support they knew it would damage the bodywork therefore were being reckless.
Is anyone aware of a (citb / health and saftey )training course to operate a vehicle removal lorry
I would certainly question their right to confiscate your vehicle. I would of thought the correct procedure for the police officer would be to arrest/take your details for criminal damage but I fail to se on what grounds this company had the right to remove your vehicle.
Most solicitors give a free 30 minute consultation, I advise you take them up on the offer.
Most solicitors give a free 30 minute consultation, I advise you take them up on the offer.
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