Quizzes & Puzzles0 min ago
Was There A Need To Take A Whole Week Of The Grenfell Tower Inquiry With Tributes To The Victims?
36 Answers
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Or was this to somehow cater to those demanding that they have a presence in what they suspect will turn out to be a whitewash of an inquiry?
Or was this to somehow cater to those demanding that they have a presence in what they suspect will turn out to be a whitewash of an inquiry?
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I'm not a supporter of an official process like this being used as a memorial service. However, I consider that in this case it was absolutely necessary.
My experience of tragedy (albeit not on this scale) is that people see their loved one(s) at the heart of it and rightly so. Giving them the opportunity to talk about those they lost a) gives them a say and b) makes them FEEL as if they have had a say and c) makes them feel that they and their deceased relative(s) are/were important. Once that has been done, the business of ascertaining what happened and why and how it ought to be prevented can often run far smoother without emotion. Both are important aspects to this enquiry.
My experience of tragedy (albeit not on this scale) is that people see their loved one(s) at the heart of it and rightly so. Giving them the opportunity to talk about those they lost a) gives them a say and b) makes them FEEL as if they have had a say and c) makes them feel that they and their deceased relative(s) are/were important. Once that has been done, the business of ascertaining what happened and why and how it ought to be prevented can often run far smoother without emotion. Both are important aspects to this enquiry.
sp1814
In my opinion a national disaster inquiry is not the place to air family mournings, it is private and should be carried out privately or amongst groups of those involved if necessary.
In the way it has been done it can stir up emotions that could jeopardize the whole inquiry proceedings, more or less like a lynch mob demanding heads.
In my opinion a national disaster inquiry is not the place to air family mournings, it is private and should be carried out privately or amongst groups of those involved if necessary.
In the way it has been done it can stir up emotions that could jeopardize the whole inquiry proceedings, more or less like a lynch mob demanding heads.
I think perhaps you might be right. I like the American idea of having the victims of crimes being given the opportunity to tell the convicted how they have ruined lives.
However, in this particular case I have serious doubts that anyone will be held accountable, therefore why not let the grieving families have their say?
This isn’t a national tragedy. It’s a national disgrace.
Togo - if you post cryptic messages, very few people will bother with responding to you, or even giving your posts any consideration or thought.
However, in this particular case I have serious doubts that anyone will be held accountable, therefore why not let the grieving families have their say?
This isn’t a national tragedy. It’s a national disgrace.
Togo - if you post cryptic messages, very few people will bother with responding to you, or even giving your posts any consideration or thought.
“….this was murder on a mass scale” “Well we have to agree to disagree AOG for once.”
You can disagree all you like. But before doing so you would do well to look up the definition of “murder”. I’m not going to do so for you because I already know what it says.
An inquiry is just that, it tries to establish the cause of the failure and (usually) makes recommendations to prevent a recurrence. It’s not the place for eulogies to the dead.
“Hope its not going to end up like the Hillsborough disaster, going on forever and ever.”
It will run and run. And run and run and run. This will not be the end. It will not even be the beginning of the end. And it won’t be the end of the beginning either.
You can disagree all you like. But before doing so you would do well to look up the definition of “murder”. I’m not going to do so for you because I already know what it says.
An inquiry is just that, it tries to establish the cause of the failure and (usually) makes recommendations to prevent a recurrence. It’s not the place for eulogies to the dead.
“Hope its not going to end up like the Hillsborough disaster, going on forever and ever.”
It will run and run. And run and run and run. This will not be the end. It will not even be the beginning of the end. And it won’t be the end of the beginning either.
Togo, i think the comparison between 1966 and the present is quite relevant. Back then, we more or less did as we were told and rarely questioned those in authority. We relied on the media to do that for us. With today's technology and social media awareness, we see through those in authority and we do question them. Back then, we had no voice. Now we have a multitude of voices.
I wasn't expecting the inquiry to start in this way and if I were leading it I wouldn't have thought of doing it as I'm more of a 'facts' person, but as the week wore on i changed my mind and thought it had been a good idea for the same reasons Barmaid has set out so clearly. It's better to get some of the emotional aspects 'out of the way' to allow a clearer path going forwards.
As for the "Wrong sort of victims of course" jibe, I recall that something similar occurred at the most recent Hilsborough inquiry- and the victims there were definitely predominantly white- unless the poster thinks scousers are also a minority we now pander to.
As for the "Wrong sort of victims of course" jibe, I recall that something similar occurred at the most recent Hilsborough inquiry- and the victims there were definitely predominantly white- unless the poster thinks scousers are also a minority we now pander to.
// You are once again over exaggerating, it was not Murder, manslaughter maybe, but we will have to see when the inquiry is over.//
nope - it is not a criminal investigation nor a court of record and so Miss says that you CAN discuss it as it goes along.
and yes there was a need as there was an unmet demand
Edmund-Davies denied the Aberfan parents a voice in the inquiry in 1967-8 and got it in the neck for that.
He said it saved money .... erm yeah ironic since they had saved money by building the school .....
Lors Mersey ( 1912) Titanic I am sure like AOG didnt give a toss about the dead, drownded passengers. Mersey also didnt understand latirude and longitude which is why he officially misidentifed the boat that didnt come to Titanic's aid. and the misidentified captain squawked loudly at the injustice he was suffering
nope - it is not a criminal investigation nor a court of record and so Miss says that you CAN discuss it as it goes along.
and yes there was a need as there was an unmet demand
Edmund-Davies denied the Aberfan parents a voice in the inquiry in 1967-8 and got it in the neck for that.
He said it saved money .... erm yeah ironic since they had saved money by building the school .....
Lors Mersey ( 1912) Titanic I am sure like AOG didnt give a toss about the dead, drownded passengers. Mersey also didnt understand latirude and longitude which is why he officially misidentifed the boat that didnt come to Titanic's aid. and the misidentified captain squawked loudly at the injustice he was suffering
// It will run and run. And run and run and run.//
no it wont because it is subject to the
Inquires Act 2005
which I wont quote to NJ because he already knew it and chose to ignore it...
https:/
brought in to specifically limit costs
when the Bloody Sunday inquiry passed £100m mark.
and came in at ... £162m I think
The Bloody Sunday inquiry was never subject to the act as it was passed DURING the inquiry....
no it wont because it is subject to the
Inquires Act 2005
which I wont quote to NJ because he already knew it and chose to ignore it...
https:/
brought in to specifically limit costs
when the Bloody Sunday inquiry passed £100m mark.
and came in at ... £162m I think
The Bloody Sunday inquiry was never subject to the act as it was passed DURING the inquiry....
“…no it wont because it is subject to the Inquires Act 2005”
Quite so, Peter. Though in fact, as far as I know, the Act places no absolute constraints on costs but instead includes this rather nebulous clause:
“In making any decision as to the procedure or conduct of an inquiry, the chairman must act with fairness and with regard also to the need to avoid any unnecessary cost”
I should not have thought it needed an Act of Parliament to ensure that enquiries should be held in the most cost-effective manner. But of course this is public money, so normal rules seem not to apply as they do in the real world.
But to be clear, it is (what will become) the Grenfell Saga to which I was referring when I said this inquiry will not see an end. After this there will be others and probably judicial reviews and all manner of forums where it will be discussed and debated ad infinitum at enormous public expense and to little end. The Inquiries Act of 2005 will not restrict that.
Quite so, Peter. Though in fact, as far as I know, the Act places no absolute constraints on costs but instead includes this rather nebulous clause:
“In making any decision as to the procedure or conduct of an inquiry, the chairman must act with fairness and with regard also to the need to avoid any unnecessary cost”
I should not have thought it needed an Act of Parliament to ensure that enquiries should be held in the most cost-effective manner. But of course this is public money, so normal rules seem not to apply as they do in the real world.
But to be clear, it is (what will become) the Grenfell Saga to which I was referring when I said this inquiry will not see an end. After this there will be others and probably judicial reviews and all manner of forums where it will be discussed and debated ad infinitum at enormous public expense and to little end. The Inquiries Act of 2005 will not restrict that.
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