Defence Secretary To Set Up Cadet Forces In Schools In An Attempt To Combat Muslim Extremists.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3821422/A-unit-Armed-Forces-cadets-set-school-infiltrated-Trojan-horse-extremists-help-inspire-British-values-Michael-Fallon-reveals.html

[naomi24]

andy-hughes //, I am not such a Nazi as to think that I have a right to tell everyone else what they should or should not believe.//

and Mikey, //But if others want to believe in these things, its OK with me.//

Have either of you actually thought about what you’re saying? Is there nothing within Islamic philosophy that you object to? Are you sure? Dangerous talk if you’re not – and even more dangerous talk if you are.

[Khandro]

andy //Amazingly, you are partly right.
I do believe that all cultures are equally valid - don't you?//

No, I most certainly do NOT, and the fact that you DO, underlines most of your confused posts on all subjects. It appears to me that your desire to show how patronisingly liberal and virtuous you are, really demonstrates the fact that you are lacking any critical faculties whatsoever.

[andy-hughes]

Khandro - //andy //Amazingly, you are partly right.
I do believe that all cultures are equally valid - don't you?//

No, I most certainly do NOT, and the fact that you DO, underlines most of your confused posts on all subjects. It appears to me that your desire to show how patronisingly liberal and virtuous you are, really demonstrates the fact that you are lacking any critical faculties whatsoever.//

Let's not get side-tracked into exactly who is being patronising here.

Instead, I am intrigued to hear what your scale is for which cultures match up to your requirements, how you arrived at your calculations, and what you think should be done with those cultures which fail to measure up.

[anotheoldgit]

mikey4444

/// This is fodder for the swivel-eyed Home Counties set, that go to the Tory Party Conference, to have their own prejudices reinforced. ///

And what about 'your lot' who go along to the Tory Party Conference to have their own prejudices reinforced?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/10/02/13/3905C13600000578-0-image-a-2_1475412105639.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/10/02/13/3905BB1400000578-0-image-a-5_1475412282927.jpg

[naomi24]

andy-hughes, to Khandro: //I am intrigued to hear what your scale is for which cultures match up to your requirements, how you arrived at your calculations//

I’d like to ask you the same question. See my post at 23:02 Tue.

[Khandro]

andy; //I am intrigued to hear what your scale is for which cultures match up to your requirements, how you arrived at your calculations,//

Well, I 'calculate' it like this; a culture which encourages and supports a flourishing democratic system of government, with freedom of its press, healthcare and free education for all, with some of the best universities in the world, is somehow better than one which suppresses knowledge and information, keeps its women covered and ignorant and genitally mutilates them, and puts to death by beheading and crucifixion anyone who either thinks differently or criticises them in any way (I could continue at length).
Do you understand my calculations?

[dannyk13]

Many schools have always had cadet forces.

[jackthehat]

And yet another thread becomes, "andy-hughes explain yourself!"

I laud Fallon's attempts to do 'something' to ensure that the youth of the country is all pulling in the same direction; quite how the reality of the scheme will pan out is a different matter entirely...

[naomi24]

jackthehat, //And yet another thread becomes, "andy-hughes explain yourself!"//

How so? andy-hughes asked the question "I do believe that all cultures are equally valid - don't you?"

[andy-hughes]

Khandro - //andy; //I am intrigued to hear what your scale is for which cultures match up to your requirements, how you arrived at your calculations,//

Well, I 'calculate' it like this; a culture which encourages and supports a flourishing democratic system of government, with freedom of its press, healthcare and free education for all, with some of the best universities in the world, is somehow better than one which suppresses knowledge and information, keeps its women covered and ignorant and genitally mutilates them, and puts to death by beheading and crucifixion anyone who either thinks differently or criticises them in any way (I could continue at length). //

Did I mention that the sun rose this morning?

No, I thought it obvious enough not to need to be mentioned.

And that approach encompasses your entire post.

I didn't think it necessary to mention the dark side of other cultures around the world, that surely can be taken as a given.

But our culture has its dark side as well. We declare war on other nations and involve ourselves in arms buying and selling. We allow our mentally ill to decline while hospitals are demolished to provide building land, we allow children to live in poverty, we have a drugs problem that is spiralling out of control, and yes, I could continue at length as well!

The point I am making is this - all cultures have their good and bad sides, including the one in which you and I live.

Any right thinking person abhors the negative and destructive sides of any and all cultures.

But the difference between you and I is that I don't hold myself up as being superior - because my culture is far from a shining example in many ways.

So now that you have outlined the blindingly obvious, and I have pointed out that we are in no position to be individually arrogant about the way we live, we can move on.

[Gromit]

Isn't there a flaw in teaching military skills to people who might turn out to be Islamic nutjobs?
If someone is shooting at me in a Shopping Mall, I would sooner they were a terrible shot rather than trained riflemen.

[dannyk13]

I can remember when most schools in my area had Scout troops which would be more fit for purpose the Cadet forces.

[naomi24]

andy-hughes @ 09:53 Wed, I know you’ll refuse to answer me – at least not in a constructive manner - but have you read Orwell’s ‘Animal Farm’ – especially the bit that says, ‘All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others’? Therein lies enlightenment. Just something for you to ponder - if you will.

[andy-hughes]

dannnyk13 - //I can remember when most schools in my area had Scout troops which would be more fit for purpose the Cadet forces. //

Sadly, not enough of the generation who equate discipline with being trained to shoot people have not passed thought far enough yet - but they will.

And a more enlightened establishment will come through and realise that perpetuating the notion of the UK as the world's police, and training people to go and fight unwinnable conflicts is resulting in little but death, destruction, and on-going terrorism brought to our door.

[Gromit]

That scene from Lindsay Anderson's film "If" keeps popping into my mind.

[anotheoldgit]

jackthehat

/// And yet another thread becomes, "andy-hughes explain yourself!" ///

Makes a change from "AOG explain yourself".

The difference being, I never see you coming to my defence.

[naomi24]

andy-hughes at 11:34 Wed, You must have missed divebuddy’s post at 17:44 Tue when he said //My school had a cadet force and I can't remember anybody going on a killing spree. It's more about discipline, drill, self reliance, building self confidence and a spot of camping; that sort of thing. Good training for anyone I would have thought.//

You say it’s about people being trained to shoot, but according to him that isn't so - and he speaks from personal experience. Do you?