faith in god ?

[anneasquith]

watching the rescue of the chillean miners, some have thanked god and their faith for assisting them in coping underground for such a long time and being rescued. would you thank god ?

[mibn2cweus]

If only He'd say "YOUR WELCOME" every once in a while. That might make things a little more interesting for us atheists . . .

[birdie1971]

God did not invent the company that employed these miners;
God did not invent the technology with which the miners carried out their mining duties;
God did not make the mine collapse;
God did not create the technology that proved that the trapped miners were still alive 700 metres below the surface;
God did not compel people to labour night and day to invent ways of rescuing their fellow man from an untimely grave;
God did not drill the hole that would ensure the rescue of these 33 minors.

Etc.


God had no hand in this situation. If He did, it certainly wasn't to rescue the men – that was entirely due to the diligence and skill of the rescuers.

How anyone can claim that this shows God in a positive light is beyond me. If God was really there and cared about the fate of these individuals, he could have performed a miracle (which He did on many occasions in the past if the Bible is correct) and simply magically transported the miners to safety.

But He didn't. He's so... mysterious...

[Zabadak]

Birdie: all I've been saying all along is that the miners, the rescuers and (apparently) most of the people of Chile, and millions more across the world simply don't agree with "God had no hand in this situation". Nether do I. Gracias Senor.
mibn2cweus. He does. People don't always listen.

[mibn2cweus]

So just how do you go about sorting these voices in your head, or wherever they emanate from, Zabadak? How do you know whether it's God or the devil speaking to you from the beyond? And how can you be certain their both not, as I highly suspect, one and the same? Because from a very early age I could not determine for the life of me which one wrote the Bible until it finally dawned on me ~ that it was neither of the above.

[Zabadak]

Mibn: Briefly, it's not an exact science, but - especially in the work I do - shared experience with my co-workers (in religious terms a very mixed bunch), the ways in which what we do is received, appreciation of what's good and what isn't. I personally use a yardstick in the character and person of Jesus as I read him, because at my stage in life I'm quite happy to see him as an exemplar of the character and personality of God. It doesn't trouble me when others use a different yardstick. The experience of worship, currently in Anglican format. Not an exhaustive list.

[Zabadak]

Back on topic, a contribution form the Chilean President: “We prayed to God and He listened to our prayers . . . I believe in a moment like this God’s help is absolutely essential.”

[boxtops]

It's an interesting discussion point, that people will pray to their God in times of crisis, but not so many may go back and thank Him after it all turns out well. Something like this, the churches will be awash with people thanking Him for "overseeing" the skills given to the rescuers and making it possible - but for the small things, one might say "please God that this happens" but don't always remember to go back afterwards and express appreciation.

[jomifl]

Hi 237 would have replied earlier but I'm in a slightly different time zone so had gone to bed when you posted. In answer to your question, I have been in several life threatening situations, but I had to use so much of my resources (both mental and physical) making sure that I survived that the even the idea of praying never entered my head. Yet here I am.

[jomifl]

Thanks for your reply Zabadak, I am now confident that god doesn't do the mechanical stuff. I know that that contradicts the old testament but I guess that was all metaphor anyway, have peaceful weekend.

[Zabadak]

Enlightenment has come to the house of jomifl! Peace to you and yours 8-)

[keyplus90]

Few people want a god who can come and stand in front of them and do things they want him to do and only then would they believe in him. However if that does happen then what about the others who were not there at that time?

[keyplus90]

Naomi always says and almost taunts others that they listen to other people and those people do not know more than themselves.

I wonder if she repairs her own boiler as heating engineer probably does not know more than she does, then she does not go to a doctor as again she knows what he does so what is the point. She was born with all the knowledge she posses today as she never went to school, college etc as what was the point as none of the teachers there knew more than what she did. Just a thought

[jomifl]

Zabadak...enlightenment came to the house of jomifl so long ago that the actual occasion is quite beyond my recalling. (in the sense of being freed from a state of superstition)

[Zabadak]

I'm sure you're right. Probably another topic, but is enlightenment a one-off? Doesn't each day bring new light? I like to stay open to surprises, otherwise what's the point of conversation? 8-)

[pugwashjw]

One of those miners was a Jehovah's witness...or at least his mother is...this raises the question...would a loving God permit all those miners to be saved, regardless of their individual beliefs, JUST to save ONE. Just because he is being totally obedient to what Jesus taught. Mark 9;7...
Surely the rescue , marvellous as it is, HAS to have had help from somewhere.

[mibn2cweus]

I knew there had to be an explanation . . . some where . . .

[naomi24]

Keyplus, I've never taken the trouble to read a book that would teach me how to fix my central heating boiler, change a tap washer, remove an offending tonsil or transplant a defective liver, but if I ever require any of those services rest assured I will indeed seek help from the experts. However, with regard to Islam, as far as the rules go there is no greater authority than the scrap of a tome known as the Koran and since you and your so-called 'experts' have all read precisely the same text I am at a loss to understand why you think they know something you don't. You're all grown men aren't you? I mean, come on, my copy amounts to around 430 pages written in simple language so we're not talking about digesting the entire contents of the Encyclopaedia Britannica here, but nevertheless you willingly rely upon other people not only to tell you what this little book says, but to dictate how you must live your life based upon its contents.

continued...

[naomi24]

...continued

Furthermore, there is a glaringly obvious contradiction in your argument. If it is so important to you to seek the advice of 'experts', then why don't you do it by applying that same philosophy to the scientific errors contained within the Koran rather than continue to support your 'experts' in insisting that your book is, among other things, scientifically faultless? Perhaps then rather than voluntarily abandoning your intellect to the appalling influence of the silly superstitious men who like you are determined to cling, without a modicum of reason or common sense, to the demonstrably false myths and unnecessary practices of a long gone age, you may begin to understand that Islam, just like every other religion, is fit only for the dustbin because it's way past its 'sell-by' date.

(ps ... please don't wheel out that mouldy 30 year old video of Keith Moore again. The regulars here could very well lose the will to live).

[naomi24]

pugwash, you're priceless! That's really very very funny! :o)

Hello mibs. :o)

[mike11111]

Why don't you just crawl into your own dustbin and take your nasty, vicious, "holier than thou" atheism with you, instead of mocking those who have some religious faith.