You‘Ve Killed Your Children. Not God. Not Your Church. You

[LazyGun]

This judges summary seems pretty accurate to me.

Couple sentenced to jailtime ( enough?) for the wholly preventable death of their son. Makes for grim reading, especially when you consider that the Church they are part of has not changed its views. One can imagine other preventable tragedies.

But not for members of this flock, no. This Pastor/Church preaches that "Satan tests through illness. God is a jealous God. Trust in medicine and doctors is idolatry. Only true faith in the divine power of God heals".

As for the Pastor, his main concern was that the other children in the family had been placed into care in "non-believers homes", and the reason for the childs death was because of a "spiritual lack" of the parents.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2014/02/19/judge-sentences-faith-healing-killers-youve-killed-your-children-not-god-not-religious-devotion-you/

[naomi24]

This is an extreme case, and of course the judge is absolutely right. It’s time the abuse of children in the name of religion was stopped altogether. No more teaching unqualified information as fact and no more chopping bits of bodies off people who have no say in the matter.

[joko]

and its crap like this that i would point out to all those people who think religion is harmless and we should all just respect other peoples beliefs.

turning a blind eye to people with ludicrous beliefs because on the surface they appear to be hurting no-one is just the tip of the iceberg ... its almost akin to a 'gateway drug', in that, although it may appear harmless, where does it lead? where does it end? who knows how far they will get into it?
it leads to deeper levels of belief, to blindness to reality.
there is no such thing as harmless religion.

i will never respect anyone's religious beliefs.

[birdie1971]

The word "faith" when used in the religious sense is simply believing in something without any evidence whatsoever. It is illogical and idiotic. Anyone who has "faith" that god exists and more specifically that there is some kind of afterlife, is delusional and potentially dangerous. Belief in an afterlife is the underlying reason for this entirely preventable tragedy. Dawkins had it right when he said, "... the authentic faith-head deserves a high place in the history of armaments, alongside the longbow, the warhorse, the tank and the cluster bomb...".

If you believe in a "spiritual" life after this corporeal one, you can justify literally anything. And many have and continue to do so to the detriment of their fellow human beings.

The "afterlife" is vile and narcissistic concept; one which is unquestioningly lauded by those who consciously chose to embrace irrationality over logic and evidence.

[naomi24]

‘Faith is no substitute for reason’ – I think it was Mibn2cweus who said that – and it’s exactly right. However, faith comes in various forms and whilst I see no harm in the gentle belief that after death one will be reunited with deceased loved ones in some sort of airy fairy Utopia somewhere in the sky, there is considerable harm in believing in Satan and devils and punishment, and, as is evident from this OP, that faith in a jealous, spiteful God prevails over the proven benefits of conventional medicine. Faith in an unseen, unknown supernatural being is in itself irrational, but belief that illness is wrought upon humanity by another equally malicious supernatural being, and that the absolute abandonment of the intellect to the former will remedy that is not quiet hope and trust – it’s a descent into utter madness.

[beso]

I believe in life after death. It can make sense but it depends on one's notion of "life". Our spirit does indeed go on in the minds of the still living.

Best leave the best impression we can.

[pixie373]

That's"their" life after our death- hardly the same thing

[beso]

Depends how you look at it.

An ancient indigenous American culture had the notion of three deaths.

First when our physical body ceases to function.

Second when no living person remembers you.

Third when you are never spoken of again.

I have experienced a communication from my wife's deceased brother the night before we were married. I had never met him.

One of those things in my life that I will never really understand.

[joko]

beso ... what form did this communication take? and when and where were you when it happened?

[beso]

It started out on the night we decided to ask an old friend of my wife's family to be the MC for our wedding reception. It was too late to ring him and we went to bed.

The next night my wife rang him and when he answered the phone he said "I know hat you are going to ask and the answer is yes." He went on to explain the dream about standing in front of a crowd of people talking about us on the very same night we had decided to ask him.

In the dream, my wife's departed father told him that he approved of the marriage. Her departed brother said he would catch up with me sometime for a drink.

The night before the wedding we had friends around. I was sitting on our veranda when I felt someone grab me on the shoulder. I assume that it was my wife wanting me to help with something but turned and saw nobody. I was surprised and assumed something had fallen from a shelf above me and didn't think of it again.

At the reception the MC told the story to the gathering, including the detail that my wife's brother had said that if I felt someone grab them on the shoulder while I was was having a drink then it would just be him saying hello.

The next day I finished cleaning up the venue and was sitting there alone waiting for a lift home and thought that the MC and I should go to my wife's brother's favourite hotel and have a drink sometime. We would pour a third drink and wait.

Then it dawned on me that I had already had the grab on the shoulder the night before the wedding. I was indeed having a drink at the time.

When I got home I remember the I had taken down the shelf some time earlier.

[naomi24]

Beso, interesting.