ChatterBank3 mins ago
Does celibacy produce paedophilia?
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The other day I heard a senior Catholic clergyman dismiss as nonsense the idea that the celibacy imposed on RC priests has a connection with the appalling revelations that are coming out about the abuse of children by many of those priests.
I am not convinced. It seems to me that there is a logical connection, thus:
Human beings have the urges that evolution has produced in them (or, as they would say, God has built into them) regardless of any white dog-collar they might wear. Faced with the arbitrary celibacy imposed on them, with no scriptural basis, priests cannot assuage those urges easily by sexually accosting adults - who will protest loudly to the the priest, his bishop and probably the police.
Children, however, can be cowed by the awe of that priest that has been bred into them, and by threats of burning in hell if they tell anyone.
Any RC priest here who would like to comment? Or anyone else for that matter?
I am not convinced. It seems to me that there is a logical connection, thus:
Human beings have the urges that evolution has produced in them (or, as they would say, God has built into them) regardless of any white dog-collar they might wear. Faced with the arbitrary celibacy imposed on them, with no scriptural basis, priests cannot assuage those urges easily by sexually accosting adults - who will protest loudly to the the priest, his bishop and probably the police.
Children, however, can be cowed by the awe of that priest that has been bred into them, and by threats of burning in hell if they tell anyone.
Any RC priest here who would like to comment? Or anyone else for that matter?
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I am sickened and disgusted that these perverts go under the name of Christianity. What an appalling travesty. Nuns and Priests alike over the years have systematically abused children, and the torture inflicted by bitter twisted old woman "nuns" on little children placed in their care is shocking. I am not a Roman Catholic neither am I a member of the Church of England as some of those so called celibates have also sexually abused children so Catholicsm is not the only culprit. Organised religion is as far from the gospel of Jesus Christ as it is possible to get.
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I have been following this thread with interest and,originally, decided to refrain from any comment.However the final sentence from RJUKL is so in much in keeping with my views on the matters that I feel perhaps I should comment.
My grandfather was a devout Catholic until he married a protestant; but remained so until my father's eldest brother was born. He then vowed that, no longer would would he attend church because, he did not wish any of his children to be forced into a religion as he was.
My parent's were divorced in the 1940's and I went to live with my grandparents and I recall my grandfather telling me that,as a pupil in a Catholic school, he was a trusted pupil and was often called upon to deliver letter mail to the local convent.....Surprising that he was trusted, because he would open envelopes which weren't securely sealed and told me that he discovered a sexual relationship going-on between a teacher Priest and a Nun. However there was no way that he could expose his finding because he would have had the hell beaten out of him for his sins.
I do not have any faith, although I was privileged to have had a private education in the Bible College of Wales. Consequently, I accept the teaching of Jesus, who, if one reads carefully every word which he said, never claimed to be the son of God.
On the issue of paedophilia, I am aware that the Pope could issue a Papal Bull ( that is exactly what it's called.. which makes one think ) and thereby condemn all sexual deviants to eternal damnation in the fiery furnaces of Hell......Why doesn't he.
Ron
My grandfather was a devout Catholic until he married a protestant; but remained so until my father's eldest brother was born. He then vowed that, no longer would would he attend church because, he did not wish any of his children to be forced into a religion as he was.
My parent's were divorced in the 1940's and I went to live with my grandparents and I recall my grandfather telling me that,as a pupil in a Catholic school, he was a trusted pupil and was often called upon to deliver letter mail to the local convent.....Surprising that he was trusted, because he would open envelopes which weren't securely sealed and told me that he discovered a sexual relationship going-on between a teacher Priest and a Nun. However there was no way that he could expose his finding because he would have had the hell beaten out of him for his sins.
I do not have any faith, although I was privileged to have had a private education in the Bible College of Wales. Consequently, I accept the teaching of Jesus, who, if one reads carefully every word which he said, never claimed to be the son of God.
On the issue of paedophilia, I am aware that the Pope could issue a Papal Bull ( that is exactly what it's called.. which makes one think ) and thereby condemn all sexual deviants to eternal damnation in the fiery furnaces of Hell......Why doesn't he.
Ron
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You are quite right wizard66, this could turn into another thread. I am not seeking to argue about the teachings of Jesus; although I have admitted to being faithless, so far as churches are concerned and to me God is an enigma which, could be said, is an issue beyond my limited mental capabilities.
Nevertheless, I wish to keep with the original subject matter of Celibacy and Paedophilia and it remains my opinion that Churches ( all of them, R,C.; C of E.; etc.; etc. ) have hidden a lot behind the pulpit and, if there is a God, the Almighty has does nothing about it.
Ron.
Nevertheless, I wish to keep with the original subject matter of Celibacy and Paedophilia and it remains my opinion that Churches ( all of them, R,C.; C of E.; etc.; etc. ) have hidden a lot behind the pulpit and, if there is a God, the Almighty has does nothing about it.
Ron.
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vivandorron, your last answer was illogical. Of course it was wiz challenging you. Who suggested differently? And it is this site which is cut-throatish, not Jesus, though perhaps unforgiving of poor reasoning may express it more kindly.
Anyway, wiz has started that new thread and I've just put in my tannersworth.
Anyway, wiz has started that new thread and I've just put in my tannersworth.
It's a chicken and egg thing.
I don't think these people develop sexual abnormality because they're priests. I think they become priests because they're sexually abnormal.
As they're not attracted to adult females, the prospect of spending their life unmmarried is no big loss. So as a career it has more appeal than it would for normal heterosexual males.
Hence the higher-than-normal frequency of paedophilia among priests.
I don't think these people develop sexual abnormality because they're priests. I think they become priests because they're sexually abnormal.
As they're not attracted to adult females, the prospect of spending their life unmmarried is no big loss. So as a career it has more appeal than it would for normal heterosexual males.
Hence the higher-than-normal frequency of paedophilia among priests.
I don't necessarily agree that paedophiles are born - I think it is more likely that they are "made"
A recent three year study found that 71% of the sex offenders being studied had experienced sexual abuse themsleves as children, 74% were exposed to emotional violence and 92% experienced domestic abuse. Those figures are too high for it not to be significant in their eventual offending. This may be a sweeping generalisation, but I would assume that most people who go into the priest hood come from a fairly religious family of background, isn't there a potentially higher likelihood that they themselves were abused as children (I know that is a bit of a sweeping statement there) so is it a self fulfilling prophecy? People are raised in the Catholic church and the potential beatings or abuse that they witness or experience affects them - they then move into the priesthood and continue that behaviour, and with perceived impunity as nothing happened to the people they knew when they were children. I don't think it is about celibacy but instead a self perpetuating cycle of faith and abuse.
A recent three year study found that 71% of the sex offenders being studied had experienced sexual abuse themsleves as children, 74% were exposed to emotional violence and 92% experienced domestic abuse. Those figures are too high for it not to be significant in their eventual offending. This may be a sweeping generalisation, but I would assume that most people who go into the priest hood come from a fairly religious family of background, isn't there a potentially higher likelihood that they themselves were abused as children (I know that is a bit of a sweeping statement there) so is it a self fulfilling prophecy? People are raised in the Catholic church and the potential beatings or abuse that they witness or experience affects them - they then move into the priesthood and continue that behaviour, and with perceived impunity as nothing happened to the people they knew when they were children. I don't think it is about celibacy but instead a self perpetuating cycle of faith and abuse.
Having read the thread, it seems to me that one perhaps needs to look at the actual reason WHY people enter into a life which they know demands celibacy. Many undoubtedly, will enter from a strong sense of belief, whilst for others it may be a way to escape from "the world" and pressures that they feel unable to cope with, especially in terms of relationships. Perhaps some, detecting tendencies in themselves they sense are wrong, think that it might help them to avoid temptation, only in the case of the paedophile then finding they are exposed to greater temptation, given the teaching role of religion.
One only needs to look at the some of the beliefs about ritual cleansing in religions to see that it may be the source of some priests, nuns and holy people from other religions getting carried away in their wish to "cleanse from sin" young people they come across and end up getting hooked on the violence of it. It is a good justification to self, if it is in the name of the religion and "saving the soul of the young sinner, even if you are having a good time doing it.
I don't think any of us know the answers, except to suspect that the causes are many and varied and link personal history, personality, beliefs, temptations and environment amongst many factors. Personally, I think that to blame celibacy, per se, is too simple.
One only needs to look at the some of the beliefs about ritual cleansing in religions to see that it may be the source of some priests, nuns and holy people from other religions getting carried away in their wish to "cleanse from sin" young people they come across and end up getting hooked on the violence of it. It is a good justification to self, if it is in the name of the religion and "saving the soul of the young sinner, even if you are having a good time doing it.
I don't think any of us know the answers, except to suspect that the causes are many and varied and link personal history, personality, beliefs, temptations and environment amongst many factors. Personally, I think that to blame celibacy, per se, is too simple.
vivandorron, I wasn't talking about your opinions, on which I haven't commented yet. I was merely pointing out that your last answer to wiz made no sense. Yes, he was challenging you - why did you have to point that out? And it was this site which is cut-throat, not Jesus.
Anyway, that was just a passing observation, not a comment on the main topic.
Anyway, that was just a passing observation, not a comment on the main topic.
OK, vivandorron, to your points:
As a 100% atheist I am not enamoured of the idea that God (non-existant to me) should punish these evil-doers. Frankly, if I had committed some dreadful act and was told that my only punishment would be to burn in hell for eternity I would jump for joy and being let off with what would amount to no punishment at all.
Let them be tried and punished by man-made laws, though I see little evidence that that is going to happen.
When it comes to reading carefully every word that Jesus said, I'm afraid that just isn't possible. There are no ear- or eye-witnesses to anything that Jesus said or did. The gospels were written in the last third of the 1st Century by unknown people (who might well have been liars or fantasists) who weren't there and who quote no witnesses whose testimony we can check. You can read carefully every word that the anonymous authors of Mark, Luke, Matthew and John said (written in that order) but you cannot know that they were the words of Jesus.
Now where is this priest that EKnewsDS promised us?
As a 100% atheist I am not enamoured of the idea that God (non-existant to me) should punish these evil-doers. Frankly, if I had committed some dreadful act and was told that my only punishment would be to burn in hell for eternity I would jump for joy and being let off with what would amount to no punishment at all.
Let them be tried and punished by man-made laws, though I see little evidence that that is going to happen.
When it comes to reading carefully every word that Jesus said, I'm afraid that just isn't possible. There are no ear- or eye-witnesses to anything that Jesus said or did. The gospels were written in the last third of the 1st Century by unknown people (who might well have been liars or fantasists) who weren't there and who quote no witnesses whose testimony we can check. You can read carefully every word that the anonymous authors of Mark, Luke, Matthew and John said (written in that order) but you cannot know that they were the words of Jesus.
Now where is this priest that EKnewsDS promised us?
Human beings adapt. Absence may make the heart grow fonder for a time, but that stage passes. If you are used to lots of sex then you miss it if the frequency drops. If you get used to no sex then you tend not to 'see' it as a big deal.
Pedophilia is a problem with the mind not being sexually attracted to a suitable partner. It has naff all to do with whether you get regular sex or not. If it did it would be rife, and it is not.
Pedophilia is a problem with the mind not being sexually attracted to a suitable partner. It has naff all to do with whether you get regular sex or not. If it did it would be rife, and it is not.
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