My Dearest Friend Ducksie - R I P
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Does celibacy produce paedophilia?
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The other day I heard a senior Catholic clergyman dismiss as nonsense the idea that the celibacy imposed on RC priests has a connection with the appalling revelations that are coming out about the abuse of children by many of those priests.
I am not convinced. It seems to me that there is a logical connection, thus:
Human beings have the urges that evolution has produced in them (or, as they would say, God has built into them) regardless of any white dog-collar they might wear. Faced with the arbitrary celibacy imposed on them, with no scriptural basis, priests cannot assuage those urges easily by sexually accosting adults - who will protest loudly to the the priest, his bishop and probably the police.
Children, however, can be cowed by the awe of that priest that has been bred into them, and by threats of burning in hell if they tell anyone.
Any RC priest here who would like to comment? Or anyone else for that matter?
I am not convinced. It seems to me that there is a logical connection, thus:
Human beings have the urges that evolution has produced in them (or, as they would say, God has built into them) regardless of any white dog-collar they might wear. Faced with the arbitrary celibacy imposed on them, with no scriptural basis, priests cannot assuage those urges easily by sexually accosting adults - who will protest loudly to the the priest, his bishop and probably the police.
Children, however, can be cowed by the awe of that priest that has been bred into them, and by threats of burning in hell if they tell anyone.
Any RC priest here who would like to comment? Or anyone else for that matter?
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Thanks chakka35 for having commented further on my earlier remarks.
I also am a non-believer of God.....which doesn't mean that I am not religious about my own beliefs (or non-beliefs).
You certainly put forward good arguments in support of your thoughts on matters and I agree with you that sinners should be punished whilst here on earth. As regards Paedophiles, if I were able to call the tune, I'd have them all sing as Castratos in Church Choirs.
Kind regards...Ron (lesser half of Vivandorron...Viv being my wife.)
I also am a non-believer of God.....which doesn't mean that I am not religious about my own beliefs (or non-beliefs).
You certainly put forward good arguments in support of your thoughts on matters and I agree with you that sinners should be punished whilst here on earth. As regards Paedophiles, if I were able to call the tune, I'd have them all sing as Castratos in Church Choirs.
Kind regards...Ron (lesser half of Vivandorron...Viv being my wife.)
Justincider... We appear to be on the same wavelength, although you have been more positive by actually saying "castrate them".....I agree.
Incidentally, I did have a friend who had been a Prison Govenor and he told me that most convicted Paedophiles were un-blessed (not well blessed). However,I agreed with him that a physical disability is not an excuse for unacceptable behaviour
Ron
Incidentally, I did have a friend who had been a Prison Govenor and he told me that most convicted Paedophiles were un-blessed (not well blessed). However,I agreed with him that a physical disability is not an excuse for unacceptable behaviour
Ron
I am a Catholic who has read this thread with interest. It is amazing to me the animosity of the general public to the Catholic Church, but it is not without scriptural basis. However, to respond to the question, you should research Pope John Paul II's Theology of the Body, a series of sermons given about the Church's view of sexuality. It is the most beautiful and true and frank discussion you could ask for as to why the Catholic Church teaches what it does about all kinds of issues related to human sexuality. Most people are not open to this teaching, but that does not diminish its beauty and truth. Celibacy is a SACRIFICE, which is at the core of Catholic teaching: humans are not meant to live only for self and for the moment. Rather, we are called to "lay down our lives" for our friends. Any priest who offers his body as a sacrifice, saying "I will do what God wants, not what I want" is honorable. Certainly, priests do fall, in all kinds of ways, because they are human too. But we retain celibacy as one of the best ways to "die to self" and learn to live for something other, something beyond our human gratification. As a married woman, I do the same thing by forgoing other men in favor of my marriage vow to be faithful to my husband. This is a sacrifice too. For whom do you sacrifice on a daily basis?
Chakka, I almost always have to have rude jokes explained to me! Completely hopeless. :o)
sunglasses, with all due respect, this smacks to me of total self-obsession. Very many people remain faithful, but they do it because they love and respect their partners, not because they see it as a 'sacrifice' that will confirm to them in their own minds that they are somehow a better person than the next man - and they certainly don't pat themselves on the back for it. Why should they? If you love someone, there is no sacrifice. Likewise, a great many people care for others, but they don't do it to massage their own egos - they do it, often with very little or no thought for themselves, simply because they genuinely care about their fellow man. You ask 'for whom do you sacrifice on a daily basis?', but in my experience those who do it for genuine reasons, are the last people to trumpet it.
sunglasses, with all due respect, this smacks to me of total self-obsession. Very many people remain faithful, but they do it because they love and respect their partners, not because they see it as a 'sacrifice' that will confirm to them in their own minds that they are somehow a better person than the next man - and they certainly don't pat themselves on the back for it. Why should they? If you love someone, there is no sacrifice. Likewise, a great many people care for others, but they don't do it to massage their own egos - they do it, often with very little or no thought for themselves, simply because they genuinely care about their fellow man. You ask 'for whom do you sacrifice on a daily basis?', but in my experience those who do it for genuine reasons, are the last people to trumpet it.
Naomi, it would not be an insult at all, but rather a gift he would give you, freely chosen! There is no gift to compare to it. You said if there is love there is no sacrifice, and I think you mean that it does not always feel painful to sacrifice, you can do it for love and feel joy! But there are those times when you are called to do it even when it hurts or "feels" bad at the moment.
And I was not trumpeting anything about myself, I was only pointing out that for those who understand the beauty of self-sacrifice, then a priest's celibacy is a glorious sign of the future! Not arbitrary or self-imposed, as the original poster assumed it to be.
And I was not trumpeting anything about myself, I was only pointing out that for those who understand the beauty of self-sacrifice, then a priest's celibacy is a glorious sign of the future! Not arbitrary or self-imposed, as the original poster assumed it to be.
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There is no self-righteousness here. Righteousness comes from a relationship, not from self. I asked the question not as an accusation but as a thought-provoker. By each reader answering the question, one can see how sacrifice IS an important component of love. It is putting the good of another first instead of yourself! Our sexuality is a gift to be shared in relationship, and it can also be offered as a gift to God.
sunglasses, actually I mean what I say, not what you think I mean.
If a man felt he were sacrificing himself to me, I'm afraid I wouldn't view it as a gift - more as a chore for him and something his conscience required him to do - and that I could never accept.
How is a priest's celibacy a glorious sign of the future? If everyone lived as priests are required to live, the human race would be extinct, so there would be no future.
A sense of righteousness comes from one's perception of oneself, so I disagree with you. Your use of exclamation marks would indicate that you feel you are revealing something that you have discovered, but that we are unaware of, which in turn leads me to believe that in doing so, you are massaging your ego. So we're back to the beginning. You clearly see helping others, or even loving others, as sacrifice whereas some who put others before themselves don't even think about it, let alone give themselves credit for it.
Tell me, why would your God want anyone's sexuality as a gift? Surely he gave it for a reason other than to accept it back as a gift?
I suspect you may be American, sunglasses, and if so, we're you ever here before under another name? You sound very much like another lady we had here a while back.
If a man felt he were sacrificing himself to me, I'm afraid I wouldn't view it as a gift - more as a chore for him and something his conscience required him to do - and that I could never accept.
How is a priest's celibacy a glorious sign of the future? If everyone lived as priests are required to live, the human race would be extinct, so there would be no future.
A sense of righteousness comes from one's perception of oneself, so I disagree with you. Your use of exclamation marks would indicate that you feel you are revealing something that you have discovered, but that we are unaware of, which in turn leads me to believe that in doing so, you are massaging your ego. So we're back to the beginning. You clearly see helping others, or even loving others, as sacrifice whereas some who put others before themselves don't even think about it, let alone give themselves credit for it.
Tell me, why would your God want anyone's sexuality as a gift? Surely he gave it for a reason other than to accept it back as a gift?
I suspect you may be American, sunglasses, and if so, we're you ever here before under another name? You sound very much like another lady we had here a while back.
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sunglasses, once again your God is revealed as a very weird and inconsistent fellow. Presumably you believe that he created humans. If so, he also required humans to reproduce in a specific way, making it attractively pleasurable to do so. Why then is it doing what God wants to refrain from that sexual intercourse which he himself invented?
This is, of course, the same God who created a minority of people with homosexual urges and then forbade them to assuage them. Once again, I'm glad I don't believe in him; there are enough weirdos on the planet without another one lording it over us.
I think you're right, naomi; sunglasses sounds very much like a reincarnation of a certain --er -- US lady.
This is, of course, the same God who created a minority of people with homosexual urges and then forbade them to assuage them. Once again, I'm glad I don't believe in him; there are enough weirdos on the planet without another one lording it over us.
I think you're right, naomi; sunglasses sounds very much like a reincarnation of a certain --er -- US lady.
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