Food & Drink1 min ago
Islam in action.... again
18 Answers
I notice that the religion of peace and tolerance is in the news again�
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/79 97749.stm
"Three Taleban mullahs brought them to the local mosque and they passed a fatwa (religious decree) that they must be killed. They were shot and killed in front of the mosque in public"
They must be so proud.
I was particularly interested to read that, "�women were not allowed out of their homes without a male relative. Girls were discouraged from going to school."
I wonder how these girls were "discouraged" from attending school? Gentle persuasion perhaps?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/79 97749.stm
"Three Taleban mullahs brought them to the local mosque and they passed a fatwa (religious decree) that they must be killed. They were shot and killed in front of the mosque in public"
They must be so proud.
I was particularly interested to read that, "�women were not allowed out of their homes without a male relative. Girls were discouraged from going to school."
I wonder how these girls were "discouraged" from attending school? Gentle persuasion perhaps?
Answers
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A top Afghan Cleric recently said:
Westerners claim that they have brought democracy to Afghanistan. What does democracy mean? It means government by the people for the people. They should let the people use these democratic rights,"
He also said "much of the uproar had come from people misinterpreting the law and that a woman could refuse sex with her husband for many reasons beyond illness, including fasting for Ramadan, preparing for a pilgrimage, menstruating, or recovering from giving birth."
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2009/04 /200941271032198717.html
To date, more than 150 British soldiers have died for this cause in afghanistan.
Westerners claim that they have brought democracy to Afghanistan. What does democracy mean? It means government by the people for the people. They should let the people use these democratic rights,"
He also said "much of the uproar had come from people misinterpreting the law and that a woman could refuse sex with her husband for many reasons beyond illness, including fasting for Ramadan, preparing for a pilgrimage, menstruating, or recovering from giving birth."
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2009/04 /200941271032198717.html
To date, more than 150 British soldiers have died for this cause in afghanistan.
I had a group of friends to my house for lunch on Sunday.
Two were single Turkish Moslem women.
I don't think they're expecting to be stoned for it any-time soon!
Stop trying to convince people that all muslims are like the Taliban!
It's like trying to say that all Christians are like Ian Paisley or the Westboro' Baptist Church
Two were single Turkish Moslem women.
I don't think they're expecting to be stoned for it any-time soon!
Stop trying to convince people that all muslims are like the Taliban!
It's like trying to say that all Christians are like Ian Paisley or the Westboro' Baptist Church
I think you will find that Turkish muslim women and Afghan women are polls apart, Tutkey is quite a moderate country and if their women wish to dress in a Western fashion, so be it, you would never find this happening where the Taliban rule ,so to suggest that a poster is classing all muslims to be like the Taliban is a nonsense.
birdie1971
Could you clarify something for me...when you posted that story, were you trying to say:
"Look at what religious extremists do in a particular part of the Middle East"
or were you saying
"Islam is fundamentally evil and they're all like that"
I think that will help everyone trying to respond.
Could you clarify something for me...when you posted that story, were you trying to say:
"Look at what religious extremists do in a particular part of the Middle East"
or were you saying
"Islam is fundamentally evil and they're all like that"
I think that will help everyone trying to respond.
My guess is that the answer will suggest that their behaviour is representative of Islam. It may go something like:
- They were following the teachings of Islam.
- But others don't do that? Maybe it's just their misinterpretation.
- It can't be a question of interpretation as the Koran is said to be the literal word of God.
- But not all Muslims behave in this way, so there must be some interpretation involved?
- All Muslims believe that this is the correct way to act. Those who don't behave in this way would like to do so, and are merely biding their time before its practicable for them to do so.
- They were following the teachings of Islam.
- But others don't do that? Maybe it's just their misinterpretation.
- It can't be a question of interpretation as the Koran is said to be the literal word of God.
- But not all Muslims behave in this way, so there must be some interpretation involved?
- All Muslims believe that this is the correct way to act. Those who don't behave in this way would like to do so, and are merely biding their time before its practicable for them to do so.
Quinlad
Yeah, you see that's the other thing that confused me...
How comes none of my female Muslim mates wear the jahib???
One girl I know got married in what looked like a sari and her fella's but day to day she wears 'normal' clobber.
And I've just remembered...one of their witnesses was gay (big old Muslim no-no surely?)
So...should we all be concerned about our Muslim mates?
You know, like Invasion Of The Bodysnatchers?
Yeah, you see that's the other thing that confused me...
How comes none of my female Muslim mates wear the jahib???
One girl I know got married in what looked like a sari and her fella's but day to day she wears 'normal' clobber.
And I've just remembered...one of their witnesses was gay (big old Muslim no-no surely?)
So...should we all be concerned about our Muslim mates?
You know, like Invasion Of The Bodysnatchers?
Thanks for all the replies. Specifically this answer is for sp1814.
You asked the question, �...or were you saying "Islam is fundamentally evil and they're all like that...�
Do I believe that Islam is fundamentally evil? Yes, actually I do. I believe that all religions that teach that there is life after death are fundamentally evil.
The reason for this is that by telling people that there is life after you have died devalues life itself. If you believe that you somehow 'get a second chance' then I think you are less likely to place such a high value on physical life.
For example, if your religion tells you to kill people who do not believe what you believe then, by definition, you have placed a lower value on the other person's life.
What if you believe, as I do, that this is it? This is the only chance you get. This is the real deal; there's no salvation or 'second chance'. If you fundamentally believe this, right to the core of your being, then all life is utterly priceless.
Do I believe all Muslims are evil?
Absolutely not.
But they have bought (or been indoctrinated) into a religion that is predicated on violence. Violence to women who dare to complain. Violence to none believers. Violence to homosexuals. The whole of Islam is replete with violence. Islam without violence or the threat of violence is like an animal free zoo.
You asked the question, �...or were you saying "Islam is fundamentally evil and they're all like that...�
Do I believe that Islam is fundamentally evil? Yes, actually I do. I believe that all religions that teach that there is life after death are fundamentally evil.
The reason for this is that by telling people that there is life after you have died devalues life itself. If you believe that you somehow 'get a second chance' then I think you are less likely to place such a high value on physical life.
For example, if your religion tells you to kill people who do not believe what you believe then, by definition, you have placed a lower value on the other person's life.
What if you believe, as I do, that this is it? This is the only chance you get. This is the real deal; there's no salvation or 'second chance'. If you fundamentally believe this, right to the core of your being, then all life is utterly priceless.
Do I believe all Muslims are evil?
Absolutely not.
But they have bought (or been indoctrinated) into a religion that is predicated on violence. Violence to women who dare to complain. Violence to none believers. Violence to homosexuals. The whole of Islam is replete with violence. Islam without violence or the threat of violence is like an animal free zoo.
Continued...
Being an atheist, I can disassociate the religious person from his religion. I can see the Muslim as being separate from Islam. I can see the Christian being separate from Christianity.
What this means is that not all religious people are evil due to some innate in-built morality that they obtain from 'without' their religion.
Religions themselves however are evil through and through.
They are a method of social control and only truly serve those people at the top of the religious tree.
With that final sentence in mind, can anyone name me an Islamic nation, ruled by Islamic law that is not considered by the world at large as an oppressive, intolerant regime?
Being an atheist, I can disassociate the religious person from his religion. I can see the Muslim as being separate from Islam. I can see the Christian being separate from Christianity.
What this means is that not all religious people are evil due to some innate in-built morality that they obtain from 'without' their religion.
Religions themselves however are evil through and through.
They are a method of social control and only truly serve those people at the top of the religious tree.
With that final sentence in mind, can anyone name me an Islamic nation, ruled by Islamic law that is not considered by the world at large as an oppressive, intolerant regime?
-- answer removed --
birdie1971
Off the top of my head I'd say Malysia.
However the wider issue isn't specifically whether the country is Muslim per we, it's whether the state adheres to jahidist principles or whether the country is 'Animist' (may have got the spelling wrong there).
There's a history of violence against peaceful African Animist Muslim states by Jahidists. Too long-winded to go into here!
Oh, and I've just thought of another - Morrocco.
And Uzbekistan.
I'm almost certain I've spelled that last one wrong.
Off the top of my head I'd say Malysia.
However the wider issue isn't specifically whether the country is Muslim per we, it's whether the state adheres to jahidist principles or whether the country is 'Animist' (may have got the spelling wrong there).
There's a history of violence against peaceful African Animist Muslim states by Jahidists. Too long-winded to go into here!
Oh, and I've just thought of another - Morrocco.
And Uzbekistan.
I'm almost certain I've spelled that last one wrong.
Sp1814 � Thanks for responding. However, I think you've misread or misunderstood my final question. In my question was the phrase, �... ruled by Islamic law..�
The point I was making is that there are many countries around the world where Islam is the majority religion. However, most of these countries are not 'ruled' by Islam. That, if you'll pardon the pun, is the fundamental difference.
Malaysia � A democracy. The Islamic movement there is calling for it to become an Islamic state. Currently not ruled by Islamic law.
Morocco � A constitutional monarchy with an elected parliament. Very complicated political situation, but not ruled by Islamic law.
Uzbekistan � Trying to be a democracy. Mostly communist. Not ruled by Islamic law.
Dubai and Kuwait � Both are technically constitutional monarchies but largely ruled by Islamic law. Both of these countries have been heavily criticised by organisations such as Amnesty International for substantial human rights abuses.
The point I was making is that there are many countries around the world where Islam is the majority religion. However, most of these countries are not 'ruled' by Islam. That, if you'll pardon the pun, is the fundamental difference.
Malaysia � A democracy. The Islamic movement there is calling for it to become an Islamic state. Currently not ruled by Islamic law.
Morocco � A constitutional monarchy with an elected parliament. Very complicated political situation, but not ruled by Islamic law.
Uzbekistan � Trying to be a democracy. Mostly communist. Not ruled by Islamic law.
Dubai and Kuwait � Both are technically constitutional monarchies but largely ruled by Islamic law. Both of these countries have been heavily criticised by organisations such as Amnesty International for substantial human rights abuses.
Continued...
The fact is, that wherever Islam comes in to power, you can be sure that violence, intolerance and downright nastiness will not be far behind.
The two young people in the original question were guilty of one thing � falling in love with one another. They knew their respective families would violently disapprove. So they fled away together. They were captured, taken to a kangaroo court, found 'guilty' and publicly executed.
No sane person can think that these two young people deserved to die.
But they were executed by, presumably, sane and rational people. How can this happen? How can sane, rational people become so twisted as to believe that a death sentence was warranted in this case?
The answer is obvious � RELIGION.
It is truly and demonstrably the root of all evil. The following quote from a chap called Steven Weinberg sums it up nicely...
�With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
The fact is, that wherever Islam comes in to power, you can be sure that violence, intolerance and downright nastiness will not be far behind.
The two young people in the original question were guilty of one thing � falling in love with one another. They knew their respective families would violently disapprove. So they fled away together. They were captured, taken to a kangaroo court, found 'guilty' and publicly executed.
No sane person can think that these two young people deserved to die.
But they were executed by, presumably, sane and rational people. How can this happen? How can sane, rational people become so twisted as to believe that a death sentence was warranted in this case?
The answer is obvious � RELIGION.
It is truly and demonstrably the root of all evil. The following quote from a chap called Steven Weinberg sums it up nicely...
�With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
birdie1971
Point taken. There IS a difference between a Muslim country and a Muslim state.
I can't therefore answer the question because to be honest, I don't know which countries operate under Muslim law. My knowledge of the Middle East isn't that great.
But the again, we should remember that our impression of these countries is largely governed by what our politicians tell us. It wasn't so long ago that Russian and China were 'evil empires'. Now they're buying up our footie teams and hosting the Olympics.
Point taken. There IS a difference between a Muslim country and a Muslim state.
I can't therefore answer the question because to be honest, I don't know which countries operate under Muslim law. My knowledge of the Middle East isn't that great.
But the again, we should remember that our impression of these countries is largely governed by what our politicians tell us. It wasn't so long ago that Russian and China were 'evil empires'. Now they're buying up our footie teams and hosting the Olympics.
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