Which Outfit For The Gig Tonight?
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I have a question for all the atheists who give answers here on answerbank and who always fervently stand up for their beliefs, or lack of as the case may be. My question is in relation to real life situations where in conversation with someone else the topic of religion comes up. If, for example, you were talking to someone and they mentioned god in relation to what you were discussing would you
1. Just agree with them
2. Tell them you don't believe in god
3. Try to turn the conversation so that you don't have to be at odds with your true feelings;
or something else which may be the case. I find if you mention atheism a lot of people are horrified.
By the way I'm more talking here about in conversation with people you wouldn't necessarily interact with on a regular basis, rather than amongst your friends.
1. Just agree with them
2. Tell them you don't believe in god
3. Try to turn the conversation so that you don't have to be at odds with your true feelings;
or something else which may be the case. I find if you mention atheism a lot of people are horrified.
By the way I'm more talking here about in conversation with people you wouldn't necessarily interact with on a regular basis, rather than amongst your friends.
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What a good question.
I was told when I was young never to argue with strangers about politics or religion and I try not to.
There are some (1) on here who are to extreme and I fight on here sometimes, but I truely believe that everybody is entitled to their beliefs, just as I am to mine. Also if the are faith based nothing I could say will alter it.
I have no problem with faith no matter what it may be, however to much of faith is politicised and it isn't faith based is it.
The thing that I have never been able to get my head around is that if you have religion, you are bigoted, I don't really mean that as an insult, but you are at odds with all the other relgions but you have no proof the even if god exists that your way is better than any other.
If I were to argue that there is no God, the relgious argument is that faith is a test and the way to heaven okay that's the call, but if you have ten faiths they all think they are right. Why?
So even if I wanted to believe in a heavenly creator I could never pick a religion.
I was told when I was young never to argue with strangers about politics or religion and I try not to.
There are some (1) on here who are to extreme and I fight on here sometimes, but I truely believe that everybody is entitled to their beliefs, just as I am to mine. Also if the are faith based nothing I could say will alter it.
I have no problem with faith no matter what it may be, however to much of faith is politicised and it isn't faith based is it.
The thing that I have never been able to get my head around is that if you have religion, you are bigoted, I don't really mean that as an insult, but you are at odds with all the other relgions but you have no proof the even if god exists that your way is better than any other.
If I were to argue that there is no God, the relgious argument is that faith is a test and the way to heaven okay that's the call, but if you have ten faiths they all think they are right. Why?
So even if I wanted to believe in a heavenly creator I could never pick a religion.
TY Niaomi.
It was that dogma that pushed me away from the church.
Although I have met many lovely people there I beieve that God cannot be found in the confines of that dogma.
He is in the people that are willing to be just what he wants us to be. People like you and others here that are not willing to believe the word of man but are willing to get out there and find God in every living thing.
God is to me that thrilling feeling I get when I help some one or see something that makes my heart leap with joy.
It is in the love and dedication to himanity and the world in general. In the dedication to do the right thing.
It is sitting here talking to the people on this thread and seeing there thoughts and being willing to except them without judgement or malice.
Thats what God means to me personally.
Whats it means to other... well who knows.
But I'm willing to hear about it.
It was that dogma that pushed me away from the church.
Although I have met many lovely people there I beieve that God cannot be found in the confines of that dogma.
He is in the people that are willing to be just what he wants us to be. People like you and others here that are not willing to believe the word of man but are willing to get out there and find God in every living thing.
God is to me that thrilling feeling I get when I help some one or see something that makes my heart leap with joy.
It is in the love and dedication to himanity and the world in general. In the dedication to do the right thing.
It is sitting here talking to the people on this thread and seeing there thoughts and being willing to except them without judgement or malice.
Thats what God means to me personally.
Whats it means to other... well who knows.
But I'm willing to hear about it.
Wow. This is all sounding like an outbreak of common sense - rare for R&S.
Being an atheist doesn't and shouldn't carry a requirement to pipe up whenever someone mentions God - you're not betraying yourself if you let it slide. There's really no need to thump tubs about it all the time.
You wouldn't feel a need to maim the conversation if someone expressed a love of, say, Cilla Black or badminton or radishes.
"I grew some lovely radishes this year and ...."
"Can I just say, I hate radishes."
"Oh.... Right. Okay."
Being an atheist doesn't and shouldn't carry a requirement to pipe up whenever someone mentions God - you're not betraying yourself if you let it slide. There's really no need to thump tubs about it all the time.
You wouldn't feel a need to maim the conversation if someone expressed a love of, say, Cilla Black or badminton or radishes.
"I grew some lovely radishes this year and ...."
"Can I just say, I hate radishes."
"Oh.... Right. Okay."
Tigerlily � what am I still doing here? I am still doing the same as usual. But for certain things (as I said) I do not have time to waste. Good thing is that you believe in God. How, which one, where he is? Are all the matters that can be sorted if your search is true and have no limits. Carry on and I am sure one day you would find what you are looking for.
Dave � You are right about the number of faiths. And of course all of them think that they are right. I think the best way to judge any faith if it is right or wrong, you have to look into their religious scriptures instead of looking at people themselves. And then put those things in practice with open and logical mind without personal likes or dislikes and see about what result you might get and if that is good or bad for the society.
Dave � You are right about the number of faiths. And of course all of them think that they are right. I think the best way to judge any faith if it is right or wrong, you have to look into their religious scriptures instead of looking at people themselves. And then put those things in practice with open and logical mind without personal likes or dislikes and see about what result you might get and if that is good or bad for the society.
Ok even if you take it as you are mentioning then yes see what people have written and you must be able to find which writing makes more sense. As far as actions are concerned I did say these are due to the personal likes and dislikes. And yes if the wrong action are based upon teachings then that means either teachings are wrong or people are misquoting it for their own benefit. Because if you would only see what people do then you would have millions different thoughts. There has to be some sort of law, rules to unify it, or at least reduce personal choices that can damage society.
To question the existence of 'god/God/s' whatever, is a perfectly acceptable and expected response to assertions that are typically accompanied with grave consequences for those who refuse to fashion their reasoning after a faulty premise. Allowing ones reasoning to be driven and guided by pain, fear and guilt do not sustain one on the path to truth.
Once a person has taken that crucial step over the abyss of faith there is not much point in appealing to reason thereafter. Only those who are willing to question their beliefs and insist that they agree without contradiction with the self-evident knowledge of perceived reality have retained a capacity for discerning truth. Absurdity is armor proof against any and all rational argument. Which of the many doors one chooses to exit into the twilight zone is of little interest to me.
While it does sadden me to reflect on all that they, who when presented with the life-affirming choice to reason opt for the blind alley of faith instead, are missing out on, I nevertheless do find it somewhat entertaining to watch them dodge the imaginary lightning bolt of their faith based presumptions when I, prodded by their tortuous inquests, proudly confess to my atheism.
Once a person has taken that crucial step over the abyss of faith there is not much point in appealing to reason thereafter. Only those who are willing to question their beliefs and insist that they agree without contradiction with the self-evident knowledge of perceived reality have retained a capacity for discerning truth. Absurdity is armor proof against any and all rational argument. Which of the many doors one chooses to exit into the twilight zone is of little interest to me.
While it does sadden me to reflect on all that they, who when presented with the life-affirming choice to reason opt for the blind alley of faith instead, are missing out on, I nevertheless do find it somewhat entertaining to watch them dodge the imaginary lightning bolt of their faith based presumptions when I, prodded by their tortuous inquests, proudly confess to my atheism.
Keyplus I think the best way to judge any faith if it is right or wrong, you have to look into their religious scriptures............
But you haven't done that, have you, so how did you decide which religion to follow?
Tigerlily, Jesus said 'The Kingdom of Heaven is within you', and I believe him. Spirituality, or God, if you want to call it that, isn't to be found in a book, nor in the sky. What is in our hearts and our treatment of others is the most important thing.
Dave, Theland isn't Catholic, but I imagine he has an opinion on your question.
But you haven't done that, have you, so how did you decide which religion to follow?
Tigerlily, Jesus said 'The Kingdom of Heaven is within you', and I believe him. Spirituality, or God, if you want to call it that, isn't to be found in a book, nor in the sky. What is in our hearts and our treatment of others is the most important thing.
Dave, Theland isn't Catholic, but I imagine he has an opinion on your question.
The Midianites? Quite simply, God was building a nation set apart for Himself, through which all other nations would be blessed. The cruel sacrfificial and immoral behaviour of the nations occupying the Promised Land, brought Gods' judgement upon them, and God used His chosen people as an instrument of His wrath and justice, to cleanse the Land of sinful practices.
The Holocaust and the R.C. Church? Quite simply, the Vatican departed from true Christianity centuries ago, and has only ever been concerned with retaining its own power through politics. They helped Hitler come to power in the 1930's!
Their teachings to this day are at odds with the Bible.
The Holocaust and the R.C. Church? Quite simply, the Vatican departed from true Christianity centuries ago, and has only ever been concerned with retaining its own power through politics. They helped Hitler come to power in the 1930's!
Their teachings to this day are at odds with the Bible.
I never impress my beliefs on others, in conversation or generally, and I would expect them to do likewise. If someone asks me about my religion (Catholicism) then I would happily answer any questions they have and listen to their views. I don�t have any issue with people being what they are, so long as they don�t inflict aggression, or harm on me or others.
I wouldn�t engage in a diatribe of moralistic superiority based on my religious belief, nor expect anyone to tell me that I am intrinsically stupid. If they did, then I would take issue, whether they were atheist, Buddhist, CofE, JW, Pagan or nothing at all. To attack what I believe in by calling me stupid, is a personal attack on me, I wouldn�t do it to someone unless they did it to me first.
I wouldn�t engage in a diatribe of moralistic superiority based on my religious belief, nor expect anyone to tell me that I am intrinsically stupid. If they did, then I would take issue, whether they were atheist, Buddhist, CofE, JW, Pagan or nothing at all. To attack what I believe in by calling me stupid, is a personal attack on me, I wouldn�t do it to someone unless they did it to me first.
The Midianites and dozens of other tribes who were massacred by the Israelites suffered the same fate as the victims of modern vendettas by those who covet their land and resources.
The agressors begin with villification by accusing them of immorality. Then they are portrayed as a threat to the safety of the perpetrators. Hysteria is encouraged until the massacre is committed in a frenzy of sanctified hatred.
The killing is as complete as possible so that none of the victim society remains to present the truth. Those who survive go into hiding or denial that they belonged to the vanquished so their story is buried lest they be tracked down and eliminated.
This method had been used repeatedly for time immemorial and to the present day. The Israelite massares chronicled in the Bible were just the first to be recorded.
What makes these particular genocides so sickening is their shameless glorification and sanctification by those who worship the Biblical monster. Others guilty of more modern shameful massacres such as the Nazi Holocaust try to deny that they happened.
I see nothing wrong with pointing out to the religious that their beliefs are thoroughly disgusting and unworthy of respect.
The agressors begin with villification by accusing them of immorality. Then they are portrayed as a threat to the safety of the perpetrators. Hysteria is encouraged until the massacre is committed in a frenzy of sanctified hatred.
The killing is as complete as possible so that none of the victim society remains to present the truth. Those who survive go into hiding or denial that they belonged to the vanquished so their story is buried lest they be tracked down and eliminated.
This method had been used repeatedly for time immemorial and to the present day. The Israelite massares chronicled in the Bible were just the first to be recorded.
What makes these particular genocides so sickening is their shameless glorification and sanctification by those who worship the Biblical monster. Others guilty of more modern shameful massacres such as the Nazi Holocaust try to deny that they happened.
I see nothing wrong with pointing out to the religious that their beliefs are thoroughly disgusting and unworthy of respect.
naomi24
Mon 20/10/08
17:57
Tigerlily, Jesus said 'The Kingdom of Heaven is within you', and I believe him. Spirituality, or God, if you want to call it that, isn't to be found in a book, nor in the sky. What is in our hearts and our treatment of others is the most important thing.
Then it would seem we are on the same wave length Niaomi.
God or what ever you want to call it/him/her is in all that is fantasically beautiful about this world and the people in it.
It is what makes us love, understand, sympathize, help and give ourselves to the rest of the world.
SO Keyplus I won't be finding it in Islam. There isn't much there other than the distruction of others.
The same can be said for most religions. They have all had their moments of shear horror in their time and anything that can and does give the word to kill because some one doesn't see things your way, is not the word of God.
Mon 20/10/08
17:57
Tigerlily, Jesus said 'The Kingdom of Heaven is within you', and I believe him. Spirituality, or God, if you want to call it that, isn't to be found in a book, nor in the sky. What is in our hearts and our treatment of others is the most important thing.
Then it would seem we are on the same wave length Niaomi.
God or what ever you want to call it/him/her is in all that is fantasically beautiful about this world and the people in it.
It is what makes us love, understand, sympathize, help and give ourselves to the rest of the world.
SO Keyplus I won't be finding it in Islam. There isn't much there other than the distruction of others.
The same can be said for most religions. They have all had their moments of shear horror in their time and anything that can and does give the word to kill because some one doesn't see things your way, is not the word of God.
Where I agree with Octavius�s views and I have always respected his views. But I would say one more thing. What would you do if your loved one is going towards fire or a ditch without any knowledge. Would you let him fall into it or would you try stopping or at least telling him so later on he or she does not complain that they were never warned. I am not saying that they were definitely wrong and you were right. It could be other way around and in that case they are the ones who should try convincing you or at least make you aware.
Same is the case in beliefs. All of us think that we are right. I think that human are related to each other for being from the same ancestors. So there is nothing wrong letting people know what you believe in, and why you do so. Without disturbing or starting a hostile debate again, as a Muslim I believe that on the day of judgment God will ask the non believers if they did not get the message? If they say no (as there no one would tell lies), then people around them would be partly responsible.
Now that should only be a message and not forced upon. I always give my own example (and few people grind my words again and again) and I have no problem with that. My in laws are still Christians, I said to my wife that it is her responsibility to ask them just once so they should not say that they never heard about it.
I know many would jump on me over this post but that�s the way I believe. However that only goes to the people around you and the people you know. And some times you do not have to say these things in words as your actions are enough to make people think.
However many here do not believe in God, Hell, paradise etc. But then again idea is to pass the message. So when the time comes they do not say that they never heard of it.
Same is the case in beliefs. All of us think that we are right. I think that human are related to each other for being from the same ancestors. So there is nothing wrong letting people know what you believe in, and why you do so. Without disturbing or starting a hostile debate again, as a Muslim I believe that on the day of judgment God will ask the non believers if they did not get the message? If they say no (as there no one would tell lies), then people around them would be partly responsible.
Now that should only be a message and not forced upon. I always give my own example (and few people grind my words again and again) and I have no problem with that. My in laws are still Christians, I said to my wife that it is her responsibility to ask them just once so they should not say that they never heard about it.
I know many would jump on me over this post but that�s the way I believe. However that only goes to the people around you and the people you know. And some times you do not have to say these things in words as your actions are enough to make people think.
However many here do not believe in God, Hell, paradise etc. But then again idea is to pass the message. So when the time comes they do not say that they never heard of it.
tigerlily11
Tue 21/10/08
12:37 naomi24
Mon 20/10/08
17:57
Tigerlily, Jesus said 'The Kingdom of Heaven is within you', and I believe him. Spirituality, or God, if you want to call it that, isn't to be found in a book, nor in the sky. What is in our hearts and our treatment of others is the most important thing.
Then it would seem we are on the same wave length Niaomi.
God or what ever you want to call it/him/her is in all that is fantasically beautiful about this world and the people in it.
It is what makes us love, understand, sympathize, help and give ourselves to the rest of the world.
SO Keyplus I won't be finding it in Islam. There isn't much there other than the distruction of others.
I think if you read history then you would find more bloodshed in Christianity than in Islam.
However if you are referring to what Jesus (pbuh) said the I would say yes, do act upon that. Jesus forbid people from pork, Alcohol, and a lot more things. Are you doing that?
Tue 21/10/08
12:37 naomi24
Mon 20/10/08
17:57
Tigerlily, Jesus said 'The Kingdom of Heaven is within you', and I believe him. Spirituality, or God, if you want to call it that, isn't to be found in a book, nor in the sky. What is in our hearts and our treatment of others is the most important thing.
Then it would seem we are on the same wave length Niaomi.
God or what ever you want to call it/him/her is in all that is fantasically beautiful about this world and the people in it.
It is what makes us love, understand, sympathize, help and give ourselves to the rest of the world.
SO Keyplus I won't be finding it in Islam. There isn't much there other than the distruction of others.
I think if you read history then you would find more bloodshed in Christianity than in Islam.
However if you are referring to what Jesus (pbuh) said the I would say yes, do act upon that. Jesus forbid people from pork, Alcohol, and a lot more things. Are you doing that?
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