Christians

[naomi24]

There is no concrete evidence of the resurrection of Jesus - in fact it's possible that he didn't die on the cross - so why do you believe?

[naomi24]

Explain it? Are people whose hearts are stopped during surgical procedures, or people who die on the operating table and brought back, resurrected? I would define it as returning to life - but I don't see the point of your question.

[naomi24]

Yes, we have strayed from the issue. The question was why do you believe in the resurrection when you have no proof?

[scotchollie]

Then if it didn't happen, how do you explain man of the apostles meeting their deaths for something they would have known to be a lie, rather than recanting and admitting the whole thing as a hoax?

Was Jesus playing a trick on them?

And if he did survive, badly injured, speared and flogged, how far could he have gone without being noticed, re-arrested and re-crucified?

If it didn't happen, why are there so many witnesses to it?

In as much as I cannot give you concrete proof over and above credible eye witness accounts, can you give me any proof that Jesus actually survived?

I think that this would be only fair?

[scotchollie]

And the best way to kill off that troublesome group of Christians 2000 years ago would be to produce Christ's body. Game over, end of Resurrection myth.

The Romans knew where the body was - and the Roman guards at the tomb would have been put to death for letting anyone steal it, so what happened to it?

The guards were reputedly as mystified as anyone else...

[scotchollie]

I have tried to explain my belief, in honesty, and I do respect your viewpoint.

But outside of asking the original question, you have not yet made any case for it.

[naomi24]

Scotch: The bible says that the people watched the execution from a distance, so they would have believed what they were told. It would have only been a few - Joseph of Arimathea, Nicodemus, his mother Mary and Mary Magdalen who would have known the truth. Jesus's tomb was in a private garden belonging to Joseph of Arimathea, so it probably wouldn't have been guarded by Roman soldiers - and if it was, perhaps they were bribed by rich man Joseph to disappear.

Why would he have been re-arrested? The Romans didn't recognise him in the first place so he couldn't have been well-known to them. Judas had to tell them who he was - and when he was arrested and tried, Pilate found no fault in him and washed his hands of the whole affair, so the Romans weren't exactly baying for his blood were they. He couldn't have been public enemy number one.

I can't give you proof that he survived, but the logical conclusion is that he did. I believe he lived the rest of his life in the east - where I think he'd spent part of his youth. A grave reputed to be his, lies in Kashmir.

[luna-tic]

Hey naomi, What would happen to our Loonie cult if we really knew the truth?
I really want to know but in a strange way I don't because the really great debates on here may peter out.
Or would we just move on to another subject.
Well that's the Jesus thing sorted. Next !

[luna-tic]

I think we should enjoy the not knowing.

[luna-tic]

Or enjoy the finding out.

[luna-tic]

sorry, I have a habit of butting in and talking twaddle.

[naomi24]

Hi Luna, I think you and I will always enjoy the not knowing and the finding out - and long live the Loonies!!

[Theland]

Naomi - Haven't you adapted a viewpoint, a belief, and are now only considering evidence, some of it speculative, to support what you already have decided to be true?

[Theland]

Naomi - You and Luna are rather late this morning. Have you changed your habits?

[luna-tic]

My habit's at the dry cleaners this week but hopefully everything ought to be back to normal next week.
Don't laugh, I'm doing a little bit of cleaning work at a Catholic School.
I may be converted yet !

[Theland]

Luna - don't forget to sneak into the music rooms and practice your singing - you've got future there kiddo!

[luna-tic]

"On Mother Kelly's doorstep".............La Da Dee Dum Doo........
Come on Naomi, grab your comb and join in.
Theland, backing vocals maybe?

[Theland]

Luna - get up to J & E, and Law. Tell me what you think. To music of course.

[NJOK]

The vast majority of historians agree that Jesus died of crucifixion. And they don't just use the writings of the bible to ascertain that. You'll always get the Dan Brown-style naysayers but they're trying to sell books aren't they?

The fact that Jesus's death commonly accepted by almost every respected historian is not 100% undeniable proof. But there's no proof in the theory of relativity or of the Big Bang or of global warming. There are plenty of scientists who disagree with these theories too.

It's certainly possible that Jesus wasn't crucified. He could have lived on for years. But then so could Robert Maxwell and I don't buy that either.

[Theland]

NJOK - It's difficult to get true objectivity from people who have already made up their minds on the issue.
I could be accused of that also, for presenting a Christian web site to support my beliefs, but, the web sites I use are also calling on evidence other than the Bible. But it's difficult to convince an unbeliever.

[luna-tic]

Theland I went along with your request and...........
"I Was Happy In The Haze Of A Drunken Hour But
Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now......La Di Da Di Da".
Will That Do?
:0)