Atheism, Agnosticism, Belief.

[Theland]

Nine and a half minutes. Very interesting.
Presented by Dinesh D'Souza, featuring Neo de Grasses Tyson.

https://youtu.be/jYi7yHeKBEI

[pixie374]

Sparkly, theland has acknowledged that birds have evolved different beaks. But because we didn't decide to call them a different species, he sees it as an alteration.

[SparklyKid]

Alteration/ evolution. Same thing.

[pixie374]

Yes... I can't speak for theland, obviously, but so far, he seems to believe in micro evolution (small differences), but not that those can eventually end up as bigger differences.

[Theland]

Quite right Pixie. Smaller, larger, stronger beaks adapted to the food supply.
But small adaptations, or micro evolution, occur within a species.
They do not eventually change into a new species.

[pixie374]

How about the examples I gave,that show they do?

[Theland]

The examples you gave are infertile and cannot breed.

[Mozz71]

There are examples of both Mules and Tigons producing offspring Theland.

[Theland]

Mozz - OK. That needs me to investigate. Thanks.

[Theland]

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12260255&t=1614016983230

This one is still under scientific investigation.

[Theland]

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/animal-hybrids-ligers-and-tigons-and-pizzly-bears-oh-my-31133439/#:~:text=Though%20many%20hybrid%20animals%20are,Ligers%20and%20other%20such%20amalgamations.

Yes, different species of the cat family.

[Theland]

So the examples above:-
First - both confined to the horse family.

Second - Both confined to the cat family.

[Theland]

Can some of you folks do your own research?
I want my dinner!

[pixie374]

Cheeky wotsit. I've been saying it all day and only when mozz joined in, did you then do your own research. You are only showing us what we are telling you. Yes, we call them the same "family" because they can breed. That's why we do. But they can still make new and different species. It's taken this long to go round in a big circle right back to the start again lol.
Enjoy your dinner... :-)

[Theland]

No! No! No!
There are no examples of new species!
Anyway, if you are using this to support evolution you are really scraping the barrel.

[pixie374]

I'm not, I was showing how it didn't disprove it.

[Theland]

Evolution does not follow the scientific method.
Not observable or repeatable and relies on spurious suppositions, but it serves its purpose in denying creator God.

[naomi24]

Theland, //it [evolution] serves its purpose in denying creator God. //

But that isn't its purpose. You've made that up. You might be at war with science but science isn't at war with you. In fact it doesn't give you and your vivid imagination a second thought. It's far too busy seeking to verify reality.

[pixie374]

It does, theland. That's why it's science and not faith. I know we will only go around in circles probably, but you are seeming to deliberately misunderstand that new species and new kinds, do happen. I have given you loads of examples, which show you can breed different enough types, that we classify them as a different kind... and more importantly, that they change over time.
Human evolution? Do you agree with it, or do you think earlier humans never existed/ were the same as us... ?

[Mozz71]

Sorry, it's ligers, not tigrons which can carry cubs (the tigron cubs are too large for the female's womb, so result in stillborn cubs, they're not infertile though, as you claimed).

While liger males are infertile, the females most certainly are not.

https://www.ligerworld.com/liliger.html

[pixie374]

Yes, mozz, mules are often sterile, but not always. Female ligers are usually fertile, while males aren't- probably as much as I know! But the point is, they can breed and breed, add in a panther, they can also breed with. And you can end up with an entirely new species.
The categories we use, are purely about whether animals can breed together or not- so saying they are part of the same family, is irrelevant, because that is how we chose to classify them in the first place.
I'm quite shocked tbh, that theland didn't seem to realise mules can breed- while clearly overriding scientists who do know.