Origin Of Information.

[Theland]

I believe all information originates in a mind.
If you disagree with this, any examples?

[Theland]

I will look as far as you like. Where?

[pixie374]

information
/ɪnfəˈmeɪʃ(ə)n/
Learn to pronounce
noun
1.
facts provided or learned about something or someone.
"a vital piece of information"
synonyms: details, particulars, facts, figures, statistics, data; More
2.
what is conveyed or represented by a particular arrangement or sequence of things.
"genetically transmitted information"

Or not...

[vulcan42]

"Without the mind, nothing physical of any meaning happens."

Trees were physically growing long before minds were around, how does your theory explain that?

[Zacs-Master]

Then how can it not be self generated.

I hope you have a good podiatrist cos I make that gun 2 feet 0.

[pixie374]

Theland, do you agree that "facts" were around, before people discovered them?

[Theland]

You know my beliefs.
God is the original mind and first Uncaused cause. Nothing happens in creation without information.

[nailit]

No we don't. You ought to share them sometime ;-)

[pixie374]

That makes no sense... God's mind has always been in existence... with information? How did that happen?

[Khandro]

vulcan ; //Trees were physically growing long before minds were around,//
From where does that assertion come?

[pixie374]

Khandro, we all know trees exist before we personally see them. Are you joking...?

[Zacs-Master]

‘God is the original mind and first Uncaused cause’

Ah, I see we finally got to the agenda.

[Rationalist]

//God is the original mind and first Uncaused cause.//

Let's leave that unsubstantiated assertion on one side, and deal with this clearly untrue statement:

//Nothing happens in creation without information. //

Stars form, consume hydrogen and die.
This process has continued for billions of years with no 'information' about the how or why it happened.

Futhermore, this planet formed as a result of gravitational aggregation of smaller planetismals. No information or causation needed for that; just gravity.

Life – including human life – evolved on this pile of rock orbiting a star. Eventually each one of us was conceived, born and many died, with no need for information, and no need for an abstract creator.

Theland is seeking to argue points of faith in a style that is reminiscent of logic and rationality, but chooses not to follow any rational method. Theland moves from an assertion at the top of the post, seeking counter examples, but ignores the counter examples, and then makes further assertions which are clearly irrational.

There's nothing wrong with irrationality. However, when those of us who try to think rationally, present rational arguments, and see then rejected or ignored, with no sensible discussion or debate, then we know our interlocutors are irrational.

Like many, I realised a long time ago that engaging in any kind of debate with the irrational is fruitless at best and in every case, a complete waste of time and energy.

The curious thing is that Theland raises some important and interesting subjects for discussion. It's just unfortunate that the opportunities for considered debate are squandered in irrational assertions.

This appears to be the experience of many of us who occasionally engage the irrational in reasoned debate

[pixie374]

Not yet, zacs... we still don't know how God was an uncaused cause... waiting for theland to explain that one still xx

[Zacs-Master]

As I said earlier, pix. Don’t get dragged into Thelands incoherent ramblings or you’ll need therapy. ;-)

[pixie374]

Rationalist, I agree completely, but I am still interested in theland 's excuses. Would love to see some actual answers xx

[pixie374]

Trying, zacs.... worth a go? He might actually answer. You never know xx

[Zacs-Master]

That’s how he gets you. The prospect of him actually giving a reasoned answer. Don’t be fooled. He’d need at least 50 more IQ points and to decry the bible. The first one’s impossible, the second not far behind.

[Khandro]

pixie; //Khandro, we all know trees exist before we personally see them. Are you joking...?//

and, where is the seat of that knowledge, where is it stored?

[Khandro]

The truth is, there is nothing, "out there" which cannot be accessed other than through the mind.
Mind first , perhaps mind only.

[pixie374]

Maybe so, zacs... I like to see how and why people think what they do. Although they often don't know why themselves.