Crosswords7 mins ago
Is Islam A Dangerous Ideology?
70 Answers
Thanks for agreeing to join my thread, Andy.
I'm going to present the most obvious argument for the dangers inherent in Islam first. But it's not my main argument. That would exist independent of any act of "terror". I'll state that argument in a future post.
The anecdotal evidence (we see it on the TV and read it in our newspapers every day) suggests yes, Islam is dangerous. Everybody recognises a link OF SOME KIND between Islam and atrocities committed world-wide almost daily. The first clue is the perpetrators' frequent cry of "Allahu Akbar!" - Allah is greater or Allah is greatest - as they kill cartoonists, behead Christians or whatever. But we have more than that - the perpetrators of the atrocities all CLAIM they are followers of Mohammed and use (possibly MISUSE) the holy texts of Islam to justify many of their actions. ISIS is the most egregious example. It's core mission is the re-establishment of the Muslim Caliphate through holy war. Now if, I stress IF, Islam's sacred texts DO justify the aims and methods of groups like ISIS, then no-one would deny that Islam IS, at least potentially, a threat.
So, for starters, I'd like Andy or whomever to say whether they think groups like ISIS or the Charlie Hebdo murderers have a TOTALLY distorted view of Islam, or maybe have a more "nuanced" view about the relationship between the radicals and their claimed religion.
I'm going to present the most obvious argument for the dangers inherent in Islam first. But it's not my main argument. That would exist independent of any act of "terror". I'll state that argument in a future post.
The anecdotal evidence (we see it on the TV and read it in our newspapers every day) suggests yes, Islam is dangerous. Everybody recognises a link OF SOME KIND between Islam and atrocities committed world-wide almost daily. The first clue is the perpetrators' frequent cry of "Allahu Akbar!" - Allah is greater or Allah is greatest - as they kill cartoonists, behead Christians or whatever. But we have more than that - the perpetrators of the atrocities all CLAIM they are followers of Mohammed and use (possibly MISUSE) the holy texts of Islam to justify many of their actions. ISIS is the most egregious example. It's core mission is the re-establishment of the Muslim Caliphate through holy war. Now if, I stress IF, Islam's sacred texts DO justify the aims and methods of groups like ISIS, then no-one would deny that Islam IS, at least potentially, a threat.
So, for starters, I'd like Andy or whomever to say whether they think groups like ISIS or the Charlie Hebdo murderers have a TOTALLY distorted view of Islam, or maybe have a more "nuanced" view about the relationship between the radicals and their claimed religion.
Answers
Very well put, Sir. Prepare yourself for smoke and mirrors; "yes, buts"; "howevers"; and "on the other hands".
18:01 Tue 15th Mar 2016
andy-hughes //So should we not separate the radicals from the normal followers //
Ever believer, no matter how "moderate", helps legitimise the notions of prophets and the holy books that contain these sick fascist philosophies of the Abrahamic religions.
Try reading the books some time and you will find that, far from being a worthy guide to a good life, they contain instructions for prejudice and brutal treatment of those who do not share the same beliefs.
It is not the "radicals" who corrupt the message of these books but the moderates who have reinterpreted or selectively ignored what is actually written.
Ever believer, no matter how "moderate", helps legitimise the notions of prophets and the holy books that contain these sick fascist philosophies of the Abrahamic religions.
Try reading the books some time and you will find that, far from being a worthy guide to a good life, they contain instructions for prejudice and brutal treatment of those who do not share the same beliefs.
It is not the "radicals" who corrupt the message of these books but the moderates who have reinterpreted or selectively ignored what is actually written.
No doubt v_e will be along shortly and steer us back on course, but in the mean time beso, for someone advocating others to "Try reading the books", you really ought to try some of that yourself.
Go to your copy of the bible (if you have one) read the gospels, and say where you can find evidence of "sick fascist philosophies" in the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Go to your copy of the bible (if you have one) read the gospels, and say where you can find evidence of "sick fascist philosophies" in the teachings of Jesus Christ.
OP: "So, for starters, I'd like Andy or whomever to say whether they think groups like ISIS or the Charlie Hebdo murderers have a TOTALLY distorted view of Islam..?"
Andy: "Blaming Islam for the actions of its extremists is lazy, ill-thought-out, and in fact, as dangerous as the extremism itself.".
So you think that the extremists are misinterpreting Islam, then, Andy?
Andy: "Blaming Islam for the actions of its extremists is lazy, ill-thought-out, and in fact, as dangerous as the extremism itself.".
So you think that the extremists are misinterpreting Islam, then, Andy?
Muslim care home workers won't let residents eat bacon saries and pork pies....now that is dangerous ...ooman rights ...religious discrimination....!
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andy-hughes
By definition, radicals and extremists draw attention to themselves by their actions, but that makes the radicals and extremists the threat, not the faith itself, that is merely an umbrella for them to hang their actions on.
So should we not separate the radicals from the normal followers - a courtesy that appears extended to all other faiths around the world?
Please do me a favour and separate the radicals from the normal followers in this video, andy
.
.
By definition, radicals and extremists draw attention to themselves by their actions, but that makes the radicals and extremists the threat, not the faith itself, that is merely an umbrella for them to hang their actions on.
So should we not separate the radicals from the normal followers - a courtesy that appears extended to all other faiths around the world?
Please do me a favour and separate the radicals from the normal followers in this video, andy
.
.
Belief in any God who intervenes and alters the course of reality in anyway distorts ones perception and understanding of causality and removes reason from the realm of objectivity. Subjecting ones objectivity in preference to preferred arbitrary beliefs renders ones mind incapable of acquiring a rationally based view of reality and how to live a moral just existence in concert with others all of whom require sound reasoning and judgement to sustain and promote our mutual existence.
Arbitrary beliefs (of any kind) are potential spawning grounds for dangerous ideologies.
Arbitrary beliefs (of any kind) are potential spawning grounds for dangerous ideologies.
It seems to me that Islam, once a fairly tolerant religion, got mixed up with militant nationalism, much of which was a reaction to Imperialism and exploitation.
Nationalism tends to de humanise its opponents which gives carte blanche to
those who are able to perpetrate horrific acts of violence on real and imagined enemies and Islam acts as a catalyst in this process.
Nationalism tends to de humanise its opponents which gives carte blanche to
those who are able to perpetrate horrific acts of violence on real and imagined enemies and Islam acts as a catalyst in this process.
How many Muslim countries have been invaded by the USA and West recently?
How many Western countries have been invaded by Muslims recently?
How many Muslims have been killed due to the direct and indirect involvement of USA and the West in recent years?
How many Westerns have been killed in the same amount of time?
How many head of states from Muslim countries been killed or toppled in recent times?
How many Western counties heads have been killed or toppled during the same time by Muslims?
How many Afghans, Iraqis, Libyans and Syrians migrated from their countries before their countries were invaded?
Do you call those people Muslim who buy "Islam for dummies" before going for Jihad?
Finally I am sure I will not get straight answers to any of these questions.
How many Western countries have been invaded by Muslims recently?
How many Muslims have been killed due to the direct and indirect involvement of USA and the West in recent years?
How many Westerns have been killed in the same amount of time?
How many head of states from Muslim countries been killed or toppled in recent times?
How many Western counties heads have been killed or toppled during the same time by Muslims?
How many Afghans, Iraqis, Libyans and Syrians migrated from their countries before their countries were invaded?
Do you call those people Muslim who buy "Islam for dummies" before going for Jihad?
Finally I am sure I will not get straight answers to any of these questions.
andy-hughes, //Any religion encourages its followers to spread its word - otherwise the religion would not survive long......So, encouragement to follow the laid-down texts and lead an appropriate lifestyle is a given for any religion anywhere in the world - and Islam is no exception.//
Once again you are pontificating upon a subject about which you clearly know absolutely nothing. Judaism, the foundation stone of the Abrahamic religions, does not ‘spread the word’ and it doesn’t encourage anyone to convert to Judaism. Quite the opposite in fact. It neither seeks nor wants outsiders.
//Blaming Islam for the actions of its extremists is lazy, ill-thought-out, and in fact, as dangerous as the extremism itself.//
If anyone has a “lazy, ill-thought-out view” of Islam it’s those who know nothing about the subject but feel qualified to bluster away blindly about it anyway. That’s not clever. It’s dangerously misleading.
Once again you are pontificating upon a subject about which you clearly know absolutely nothing. Judaism, the foundation stone of the Abrahamic religions, does not ‘spread the word’ and it doesn’t encourage anyone to convert to Judaism. Quite the opposite in fact. It neither seeks nor wants outsiders.
//Blaming Islam for the actions of its extremists is lazy, ill-thought-out, and in fact, as dangerous as the extremism itself.//
If anyone has a “lazy, ill-thought-out view” of Islam it’s those who know nothing about the subject but feel qualified to bluster away blindly about it anyway. That’s not clever. It’s dangerously misleading.
Keyplus, your questions highlight what most non-Muslims fail to recognise. You are Pakistani, but nevertheless you support Muslims across the world and Muslims across the world do likewise. Seadogg mentioned nationalism but Muslims are Muslim first and nationalism comes a very poor second. Islam is a brotherhood. Offend Islam and, regardless of country of birth, all Muslims take umbrage. That is the danger that Islam poses to the west – but I’ve no need to tell you what you already know.
Khandro, //say where you can find evidence of "sick fascist philosophies" in the teachings of Jesus Christ.//
I wouldn’t say I’ve found “sick fascist philosophies” in the teachings of Christ, but he wasn’t the great all-encompassing beneficent chap you’ve been taught he was, so don’t listen to rumours. He was interested only in the Jews.
I wouldn’t say I’ve found “sick fascist philosophies” in the teachings of Christ, but he wasn’t the great all-encompassing beneficent chap you’ve been taught he was, so don’t listen to rumours. He was interested only in the Jews.
n.; // He was interested only in the Jews.//
True, he didn't have much to say about the Danes or the Australian aborigines, though what he said would be applicable to them too. He was, after all, a Jew at a time when they were being persecuted by the Romans, do you have a problem with his Jewishness?
True, he didn't have much to say about the Danes or the Australian aborigines, though what he said would be applicable to them too. He was, after all, a Jew at a time when they were being persecuted by the Romans, do you have a problem with his Jewishness?
andy-hughes - "... Blaming Islam for the actions of its extremists is lazy, ill-thought-out, and in fact, as dangerous as the extremism itself..."
Clearly you're not familiar with the Koranic texts. They are quite specific in their vitriolic hatred and condemnation of infidels and are explicitly doctrinally unchangeable. Rather than posting apologist dogma, your time may be better spent actually reading the religious texts you are so willing to defend.
Clearly you're not familiar with the Koranic texts. They are quite specific in their vitriolic hatred and condemnation of infidels and are explicitly doctrinally unchangeable. Rather than posting apologist dogma, your time may be better spent actually reading the religious texts you are so willing to defend.
Khandro, //say where you can find evidence of "sick fascist philosophies" in the teachings of Jesus Christ.//
Jesus explicitly and repeatedly endorses the entirety of the Old Testament. I find it incredible that you don't know this well enough to avoid taking up an argument on that line. Clearly you are not at all familiar with either of the Testaments.
Moreover, every follower of any of the Abrahamic faiths eagerly awaits the arrival of Armageddon where their sect prevails and everyone else is slaughtered by their deity. Surely such an attitude is the epitome of fascism.
Jesus explicitly and repeatedly endorses the entirety of the Old Testament. I find it incredible that you don't know this well enough to avoid taking up an argument on that line. Clearly you are not at all familiar with either of the Testaments.
Moreover, every follower of any of the Abrahamic faiths eagerly awaits the arrival of Armageddon where their sect prevails and everyone else is slaughtered by their deity. Surely such an attitude is the epitome of fascism.
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