Darwin’S Doubt

[naomi24]

Watching Steve Backshall's Extreme Mountain Challenge last night, he trapped a large wasp. He explained that this particular variety of wasp stings spiders, paralysing them, and then proceeds to lay its eggs inside the paralysed body. The hatchlings eat the spider from the inside – avoiding the vital organs in order to keep the spider alive - hence a source of fresh food is guaranteed. He said that Darwin’s discovery of this wasp and this process caused him to doubt the existence of a beneficent God.

Food for thought?

[Khandro]

It was a letter to my local newspaper which is called the Schwarzwalder Bote and it was a couple of months ago.

I have looked through my own topics for the Spectator article, and it wasn't mine. Do you not remember you saying how the murderer of Lee Rigby was "brought up as a Christian" which I (of course) refuted on the grounds that the only evidence for it was that his mother had said when he was a child she had "shown him how to pray".

[Khandro]

I have found the article;
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2014/10/my-boy-the-radical-muslim/

[naomi24]

Khandro, one article in the Spectator concerning one child and one letter from a teacher to a newspaper doesn’t equate to children raised in atheist households being prime targets for Islamification as you claim. You’re grossly over-reacting to that article.

Despite your protestations, the killers of Lee Rigby were brought up in Christian households.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10528365/Lee-Rigby-killers-from-quiet-Christians-to-Islamist-murderers.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25424290

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/lee-rigby-murder-how-killers-michael-adebolajo-and-michael-adebowale-became-ultra-violent-radicals-9015743.html

Michael Adebolajo’s brother said, “"My parents were protestant Christians. As you can imagine with most African parents, they consider religion to be something of great importance and we were no different."

http://news.sky.com/story/1185054/adebolajos-brother-refuses-to-condemn-murder


OG, as far as I’m aware the National Curriculum includes evolution for 10 & 11 year olds and the school is performing the function required of it. However, that doesn’t mean that faith schools, including that one, are teaching children that human beings descended from apes. They’re not.

[Hypognosis]

@Khandro

//
@naomi; You really do not understand (or refuse to) the concept of intelligent design. It is evolution itself which is part of nature's design, how individual life-forms evolve is not pre-ordained.
//

Oh good grief! IDers have co-opted evolution into their little theory now?

Back in in the 90s (USENET groups, Compuserve forums etc.), ID was the counterblast to evolution. All the species designs were present and perfect from the "get-go".

Well, at least they've adopted the scientific approach of modifying hypotheses, in the face of overwhelming evidence.

They must have seen the light… in the storage warehouses where all the fossils are stored.

Go on, say "intermediate forms"(tm), just for old times' sake. ;-)

[jim360]

Just, for the sake of argument, taking Khandro's "vulnerable atheist" hypothesis to be true, why might it be? In this country, at least, it's relatively less of a problem, but in the Western World it's not uncommon for "atheist" to be a very insulting label indeed. Not one week ago I had an argument with an American friend of mine about Bernie Sanders, who is someone he could not possibly vote for because not only is he socialist (and therefore the first step on the road to a communist dictatorship), but also, terrifyingly, atheist. It was not easy to work out which was the worse accusation.

I suppose in a roundabout way the point I'm trying to make is that in a society that is still predominantly religious, having any religion at all can often be seen as better than having no religion. This has a tendency to make atheists outcasts. In my personal experience, this was probably a self-imposed outcast status (not exactly helped, perhaps, by being at a CofE school, although I don't recall any teachers having an issue with it); for others, particularly in the US, isn't it reasonable to think that people who either feel rejected by their family, or actually are, would be that bit more vulnerable to being exploited by anyone that can give them a sense of belonging?

The main point then is that atheism is not in itself responsible for any increased risk of vulnerability. How people perceive atheists might well be, though.

[wildwood]

this may have led to an new subject.

[Peter Pedant]

thoughts ?
I think he is wrong

undergrads have to do quite a lot on what did Darwin think and why did he think it

and parasitism in wasps - oh and also mimicry ( why do bee orchids look like beez when god has already designed bees... ? ) features a lot in tele series. Quite a lot of the time the Great Men werent that interested in explaining why they thought this or that - but their hangers on were

and I still think it is finches and the letter from Russell Wallace you know the one that says Dear Mr Darwin I have invented this fantastic new theory .....

but it makes good television.....

[Peter Pedant]

Oh dear I thought this was on Darwin and here we have the OP
letting off on totally new and hitherto un-thought of ideas on radical muslim fundamentalism ( again )

ho hum
sorry readers - my bit on what Darwin thought and why is completely off the usual well trodden topic - apolz

[Peter Pedant]

To remove doubt


I went to a roman catholic school
and one of the monks who had a degree in Zoology
taught us standard Zoology

[naomi24]

Peter Pedant, // here we have the OP letting off on totally new and hitherto un-thought of ideas on radical muslim fundamentalism //

What are you talking about? If you had read the posts you would know that I didn't introduce the subject of Muslim fundamentalism to this thread.

[Peter Pedant]

sweet one
your post above beginning Khandro and ending they'er not

is not about Darwin. it is about something else

[sandyRoe]

Do the spider and the diners not just go to show the amazing diversity of God's wonderful creation?
Despite appearances, everything is for the best in this, the best of all possible worlds.

[Khandro]

jim; // isn't it reasonable to think that people who either feel rejected by their family, or actually are, would be that bit more vulnerable to being exploited by anyone that can give them a sense of belonging?//

! think that is very true, and I believe is happening not only in schools but in an even greater extent in prisons.

[sandyRoe]

Except, of course, for the dinner host.

[naomi24]

Peter Pedant, yes, it is about something else. The post you refer to is in response to Khandro at 10:59 this morning when he claimed that children raised in atheist homes are prime targets for Islamification, and went on to deny that Lee Rigby’s murderers had been raised as Christians. Discussions 'evolve' so do read the posts before launching into one, there's a good chap. ;o)

[Khandro]

This offshoot came about because of a depressing statement by Cloverjo that she rejoiced in the fact that her son had decided to become an atheist.
It cannot have escaped you that Europe is under attack by a mindset, not wishing to integrate, but to dominate.
The most impervious to their wishes are I believe, those who uphold some form of religious position as a bulwark, be that Christian (Anglican, Catholic J. W's or whatever) Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Taoists or Sikhs.
It is demonstrable the most easy prey are the 'nothingists'.

[naomi24]

Khandro, //It is demonstrable the most easy prey are the 'nothingists'//

For me to take that seriously, you will need to provide the evidence that demonstrates that. The rest of your post I'll respond to tomorrow. Too tired now. Night.

[Peter Pedant]

// and went on to deny that Lee Rigby’s murderers had been raised as Christians. Discussions 'evolve'//

so I see ..... darwin evolves into discussions about Lee Rigby and they say I am the mad one...

Meanwhile back at Darwin - his loss of the belief in God is not usually ascribed erm to Lee Rigby's killers xc by those who really can be called lu-lu but instead on the early death of Annie his daughter probablly from TB.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Darwin

[Peter Pedant]

//khandro, //It is demonstrable the most easy prey are the 'nothingists'//
For me to take that seriously..... //

take it seriously ?
does anyone have an irony klaxon I can blaaarp ?

I too am tired but never too tired to mercilessly ridicule non-sequiturs as they spontaneously spring to life on a thread about erm Darwin

[Cloverjo]

Khandro, I didn't rejoice when my son said he was atheist. I can't remember the exact words I used in that post, but I do remember feeling relief that he didn't believe in God and all the stories about Jesus and the Bible that he'd heard in his CoE primary school.