Malala Yousafzai's Address To The United Nations

[naomi24]

I've just posted this in News, but it's relevant here too.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23291897

To say this girl is an inspiration to the world is an understatement. All power to her!

[lightbulb247]

for oce naomi i agree with you. enough said.

[lightbulb247]

*once

[DTCwordfan]

Hear Hear

Oxford or Stanford here she comes, perhaps the Sorbonne and then very high up in the United Nations, if she doesn't meet her ambition of becoming Pakistani PM.

[ladybirder]

I expected nothing less of her:-)

[naomi24]

Lightbulb, so speaks the man who, although he wouldn't wish it for his own daughter, will not denounce the practice of Muslim men marrying young girls.

DT, as to her further education, I’m sure you’re right – but I hope her ambition is not limited to a future as a Pakistani MP – that would be a waste of her intellect. The world is her platform. She's only 16, but at last there is someone who has first-hand experience and who is courageous enough to give a voice to the voiceless.

Ladybirder, I’m so pleased you said that, because neither did I. (How come I so often agree with you?). The winds of change are gathering and fundamentalist Islam has a fight on its hands. Go girls! :o)

[beso]

My signature is on her petition.

I agree that Pakistani politics would be waste of her potential.

[birdie1971]

Much as I abhor the subjugation of women, she lost me with her opening statement, “Thank you. In the name of God, the most beneficent, the most merciful...”

She was a victim of religious fundamentalism. She still remains a victim of religion. She's young – there is hope for her yet.

[beso]

Hopefully one day she will realise that it is her god that stands at the root of the problem she is battling.

Unfortunately indoctrination from infancy is extremely difficult to overcome.

[naomi24]

Birdie, in her defence, she did mention figures from other religions, and included people like Martin Luther King and Ghandi. She has been raised in that culture, so mentioning God wasn't entirely unexpected - and it was possibly quite politic. At least she can't be accused of ignoring him.

[lightbulb247]

//Lightbulb, so speaks the man who, although he wouldn't wish it for his own daughter, will not denounce the practice of Muslim men marrying young girls.//

i do believe it is wrong and i believe that marrying young girls is wrong. But first, define what you mean by "young" as that is a subjective term and also while the quran does not state an age limit for marriage, it does have guidelines, one being that you must have the girls agreement. Of course, any girl under 16 may not be capable of understanding this and may be pressurised into mariage, yet i am sure that god will punish these men who do that, as that goes clearly against islam as the girl must be able to be of age where she can make the decision for herself.

http://www.misconceptions-about-islam.com/muhammad-married-young-girl.htm

Now, this thread is not one for debating Islam and what it means, that will surely be for another time. This thread is for praising this young girl, which i have done.

[LazyGun]

She does cut an inspirational figure, doesn't she? And very comfortable on the world stage too, it appears. No wonder the Taleban regarded her as a threat.

Like Birdie, I personally would wish for a world free from religion - but it does not bother me quite so much about her continuing self- identification as a Muslim. For me, provided the religion people follow does not encourage them to gain special favours for their religious status, or attempt to demand automatic respect for the religion from those that do not believe, or reject science in favour of their religious belief, they can be as devout as they like :)

I do not want to hijack the thread to discuss age of consent, marriage and the part religion plays in all of that, but it is worth addressing some of the points that Lightbulb raises.

Once upon a time, when life expectancy was very short, education was basically zero, and all were concerned about finding food for the next day and providing sufficient children to continue the tribe and raise the herds or till the fields, marriage at an early age by modern standards was not unusual and pragmatically speaking, was probably necessary. Within the West, there is variation, although it is increasingly being standardised around a mean of 15/16.

Things have changed very much though. Advances in science, technology, medicine, the industrialisation of the production of goods and labour have all changed the culture out of all recognition to its agrarian roots.

If you expect that each child deserves a childhood, and that every child, regardless of gender deserves an education, these are incompatible with marriage at puberty.Gender equality and the recognition that children are not simply just chattels of their parents also mean that the girl should have an absolute right to say no to an arranged marriage, without fear of reprisal.

The difference between the Muslim world and the West on this issue is that the West has changed and adapted - it has consigned many religiously or culturally inspired rules to the dustbin. Islam needs to take a long hard look at some of its own cultural practices follow suit and adapt to the modern world if it ever hopes to soothe suspicion and become respected again, rather than the response right now, which is increasingly xenophobic.

Out of curiousity Lightbulb, you said the age of consent was a subjective issue - so what is your own feeling about what should be the legal age of consent?

You also said this "yet i am sure that god will punish these men who do that, as that goes clearly against islam"

Now, whilst that might be immeasurably comforting to the devout believer, it does little to offer justice of fairness or protection in this world, in the here and now. I would far rather girls were legally and culturally protected, rather than relying on a hypothetical and unproven god to mete out punishment to the wicked.....

[lightbulb247]

Lazygun, i believe that when a girl has hit maturity they should be allowed to marry, if they want. However for an age, i would say maybe 16/17 at minimum and of course, with consent.

//I would far rather girls were legally and culturally protected, rather than relying on a hypothetical and unproven god to mete out punishment to the wicked..//

i agree to a certain extent, that yes, these girls should be protected. However i wouldnt blame this all on Islam, yes, their are some muslims who take advantage and who maybe misread or twist things to suit them, yet islam does not support this.

[FredPuli43]

Can't see anything wrong with her mentioning God. President Obama does it all the time. The fulsome nature ,or not, of the reference expected is dependent on the culture of the speaker and the audience

[birdie1971]

I was driving in my home town on Friday afternoon and I got caught up in pedestrians. Normally I get caught up in traffic but on this day it was two legged humans. There seemed to be an unusually large number of people walking all over the road without much regard for their own safety. I checked my watch and surveyed the crowd and it occurred to me that it was the end of Friday prayer time for muslims.

But not all muslims it seems. While I was stationary and viewing the multitudes of very finely clad chaps it dawned on me that there were no women about. And I don't mean there were only a few women about; there were NO women about. Not a single one. Not anywhere. I scanned the crowds and I couldn't see a single female among them.

Not a question; just an observation. I find this religiously instructed separation of the sexes deeply worrying. It sends very clear signals to impressionable young minds (of both sexes) that women are not equal to men.

[naomi24]

Lightbulb, we’ve been here before with you, so it’s no surprise that you only agree ‘to a certain extent’ that these girls should be protected. However, interesting to wander around that website you provided - and so much to question there. It’s apologetic nonsense. Islam’s criteria for determining marriageable age is, according to your link, “To have physically matured / post-puberty”. Disregarding the fact that some girls reach puberty at 9 or 10 years of age, that is not a recommendation I have found in the Koran which gives this advice to men on divorcing their wives.

If you are in doubt concerning those of your wives who have ceased menstruating, know that their waiting period shall be three months. The same shall apply to those who have not yet menstruated. Qur'an 65:4

See that last sentence? There is no question that marriage of men to little girls, pre-pubescent or not, is acceptable – and Muslims who act upon the words of the Koran do not, as you would have it, “misread or twist things to suit them”. That’s what the book says!

Incidentally, I came across a quiz there asking ‘How Muslim are You?’ Perhaps you can tell me why this quote that is generally attributed to Gandhi, is considered to be a question, and what it means to Muslims?

Question 10. "Be the change you want to see in the world."

http://www.areyoumuslim.com/

[lightbulb247]

//Be the change you want to see in the world." //

it means what it says. To me it means that if you want respect, show respect, if you want jutice, show justice etc.

[naomi24]

In that case, since it's not a question, it might mean something entirely different to someone else, so how can it be marked in quiz to test your compatibility with Islam? It has to mean something more specific than that.