ChatterBank6 mins ago
Is Hell Hot?
74 Answers
People often forget they have brains when it comes to a topic such as hell. Many persons will ponder on financial or other matters, but when hell is the subject they seem to prefer that someone else do the thinking.
Answers
hi good life .hell can be many things. As you are always quoting from the holy writings. what is the truth about hell in the Bible. And what is the Bible pointed view. in my opinion hell is death and not a place of everlasting fire.??? and you say god and Jesus are of love ,so why is your soul tormented the rest of your time in hell if you fail to please him .
15:47 Sun 30th Dec 2012
@Goodlife - Thats twice now that you have insulted other contributors to this thread.
"Again, there is no reason to be dogmatic on this, People often forget they have brains when it comes to a topic such as a converts some prefer that someone else do the thinking"
And oh the the irony! - a JW telling others not to be dogmatic, or the irony of a committed faithhead telling others they do not use their brain!
So is it only people that disagree with you that have no brain goodlife, or just the rest of humanity?
"Again, there is no reason to be dogmatic on this, People often forget they have brains when it comes to a topic such as a converts some prefer that someone else do the thinking"
And oh the the irony! - a JW telling others not to be dogmatic, or the irony of a committed faithhead telling others they do not use their brain!
So is it only people that disagree with you that have no brain goodlife, or just the rest of humanity?
Goodlife - “... [in response to my post about the needless torture of Job] Wrong -the simple fact is that God’s said: If I did not speak, and no other agent could be found, the very stones would cry out.” (Lu 19:40)...”
You've answered my criticisms of the story of Job with a completely unrelated quote. I fail to understand your reasoning for doing so. I would like an answer from you in your own words please. I'll make it easy for you so that there's no confusion:
Q1. God is Omniscient - He knows everything there is to know both past, present and future. Yes or No?
Q2. God makes a bet with the devil. Yes or No?
Q3. The devil tortures Job. Yes or No?
I respectfully request that you answer my above questions without resorting to scriptural quotations.
You've answered my criticisms of the story of Job with a completely unrelated quote. I fail to understand your reasoning for doing so. I would like an answer from you in your own words please. I'll make it easy for you so that there's no confusion:
Q1. God is Omniscient - He knows everything there is to know both past, present and future. Yes or No?
Q2. God makes a bet with the devil. Yes or No?
Q3. The devil tortures Job. Yes or No?
I respectfully request that you answer my above questions without resorting to scriptural quotations.
-- answer removed --
Lazygun // Thats twice now that you have insulted other contributors to this thread.//
There has been no insult intended. You obviously read into it what you wanted to see.
I was not insulting any person(s). I was using the term "dogmatic" in the sense that people hold stubbornly to the belief of a hellfire, not using their brains in questioning the logic in the idea that the Bible words "sheol" and "hades" translate into "burning fire" when the correct translation of these words is actually "grave".
For example:
The Hebrew word sheol in the King James Version, is translated 31 times as "hell," 31 times as "grave," and 3 times as "pit."
Birdie@
Q1 He is omniscient in the sense that nothing can be hidden from him.
Q2 No
Q3 Yes
There has been no insult intended. You obviously read into it what you wanted to see.
I was not insulting any person(s). I was using the term "dogmatic" in the sense that people hold stubbornly to the belief of a hellfire, not using their brains in questioning the logic in the idea that the Bible words "sheol" and "hades" translate into "burning fire" when the correct translation of these words is actually "grave".
For example:
The Hebrew word sheol in the King James Version, is translated 31 times as "hell," 31 times as "grave," and 3 times as "pit."
Birdie@
Q1 He is omniscient in the sense that nothing can be hidden from him.
Q2 No
Q3 Yes
@Goodlife
Well,its good to hear you were not trying to insult other posters,when you twice typed that "people forget their brains" when talking about hell. Of course, you still fail to recognise the irony of that statement, when your own assertions of hell are entirely based upon dogma.
The most valuable use of our brains is to critically examine the world around us, and that should most definitely include beliefs. I have yet to see you offer any evidence of a critical examination of the dogma that underpins your faith in any of these threads, rejecting the logic in favour of the faith every time, so who exactly is "forgetting their brains" here, Goodlife?
Remember that every time you point a finger - you are pointing 3 back at yourself... :)
Well,its good to hear you were not trying to insult other posters,when you twice typed that "people forget their brains" when talking about hell. Of course, you still fail to recognise the irony of that statement, when your own assertions of hell are entirely based upon dogma.
The most valuable use of our brains is to critically examine the world around us, and that should most definitely include beliefs. I have yet to see you offer any evidence of a critical examination of the dogma that underpins your faith in any of these threads, rejecting the logic in favour of the faith every time, so who exactly is "forgetting their brains" here, Goodlife?
Remember that every time you point a finger - you are pointing 3 back at yourself... :)
Goodlife - “.... Birdie@... Q1 He is omniscient in the sense that nothing can be hidden from him...”
This includes future events do it not? Or are you suggesting that God is incapable of seeing the future?
Goodlife - “... Q2 No...”
Not true I'm afraid [New International Version, Job 1:6-12 ]:
“One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them - The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it." - Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." - "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. - "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. - But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." - The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.“
This is a wager. There really is no other way to describe it. It also shows God to be a fool since He instructs Satan not to lay a finger on Job, apparently not realising (again, where's the Omniscience?) that Satan can inflict harm on someone without physically touching them.
Goodlife - “... Q3 Yes...”
On that we agree. But he also does it with God's permission and compliance.
For this story to be a 'good' story, God must fail to be Omniscient. But if He's not Omniscient then he cannot be God. It's a contradictory story that completely undermines the entire idea of a loving, benevolent, all-seeing God.
But you can't accept that because you are wilfully blind.
This includes future events do it not? Or are you suggesting that God is incapable of seeing the future?
Goodlife - “... Q2 No...”
Not true I'm afraid [New International Version, Job 1:6-12 ]:
“One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them - The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it." - Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." - "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. - "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. - But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." - The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.“
This is a wager. There really is no other way to describe it. It also shows God to be a fool since He instructs Satan not to lay a finger on Job, apparently not realising (again, where's the Omniscience?) that Satan can inflict harm on someone without physically touching them.
Goodlife - “... Q3 Yes...”
On that we agree. But he also does it with God's permission and compliance.
For this story to be a 'good' story, God must fail to be Omniscient. But if He's not Omniscient then he cannot be God. It's a contradictory story that completely undermines the entire idea of a loving, benevolent, all-seeing God.
But you can't accept that because you are wilfully blind.
hi good life .hell can be many things. As you are always quoting from the holy writings. what is the truth about hell in the Bible. And what is the Bible pointed view. in my opinion hell is death and not a place of everlasting fire.??? and you say god and Jesus are of love ,so why is your soul tormented the rest of your time in hell if you fail to please him .
These questions have been debated for centuries. The controversy and still divides major religions. Can God’s ability to foreknow the future be reconciled with human free will? Where should we look for answers?
Well not from you.
If, in certain respects, God chooses to exercise his infinite ability of foreknowledge in a selective way and to the degree that pleases him, then assuredly no human or angel can rightly say: “What are you doing?” (Job 9:12) It is therefore not a question of ability, what God can foresee, foreknow, and foreordain, for “with God all things are possible.” (Mt 19:26) The question is what God sees fit to foresee, foreknow, and foreordain.
Of course, all this has been only by God’s permission, and has resulted in all the political governments and rulerships that exist today. So,
12 “All right, you may test him,” the LORD said to Satan. “Do whatever you want with everything he possesses, but don’t harm him physically.” So Satan left the LORD’s presence.(NLT)
Yes, Jesus said that those falsely professing to serve him would be distinguished from those who are fed falsehoods.
Locustsl@ At revelation 14:9-11 speaks of some who are “tormented with fire and sulphur . . . And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever.” Does this prove eternal conscious torment in hellfire? No actually, all this passage says is that the wicked are tormented, not that they are tormented forever. The text states that it is the smoke—the evidence that the fire has done its work of destruction—that continues forever, not the fiery torment.
Well not from you.
If, in certain respects, God chooses to exercise his infinite ability of foreknowledge in a selective way and to the degree that pleases him, then assuredly no human or angel can rightly say: “What are you doing?” (Job 9:12) It is therefore not a question of ability, what God can foresee, foreknow, and foreordain, for “with God all things are possible.” (Mt 19:26) The question is what God sees fit to foresee, foreknow, and foreordain.
Of course, all this has been only by God’s permission, and has resulted in all the political governments and rulerships that exist today. So,
12 “All right, you may test him,” the LORD said to Satan. “Do whatever you want with everything he possesses, but don’t harm him physically.” So Satan left the LORD’s presence.(NLT)
Yes, Jesus said that those falsely professing to serve him would be distinguished from those who are fed falsehoods.
Locustsl@ At revelation 14:9-11 speaks of some who are “tormented with fire and sulphur . . . And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever.” Does this prove eternal conscious torment in hellfire? No actually, all this passage says is that the wicked are tormented, not that they are tormented forever. The text states that it is the smoke—the evidence that the fire has done its work of destruction—that continues forever, not the fiery torment.
Goodlife, // And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever.” Does this prove eternal conscious torment in hellfire? No actually, all this passage says is that the wicked are tormented, not that they are tormented forever.//
So we’ve gone from the concept of hell doesn’t really exist in the bible to the wicked being condemned to fiery torment, but not forever. Do you actually know what you’re talking about?
//The text states that it is the smoke—the evidence that the fire has done its work of destruction//
And that’s good? You’re happy with that? If being a true Christian demands that a human mind accepts that hateful nonsense with impunity, as yours clearly does, then all I can say is I’m glad I’m one of those damned atheists! I don’t want to be like you. Sickening!
So we’ve gone from the concept of hell doesn’t really exist in the bible to the wicked being condemned to fiery torment, but not forever. Do you actually know what you’re talking about?
//The text states that it is the smoke—the evidence that the fire has done its work of destruction//
And that’s good? You’re happy with that? If being a true Christian demands that a human mind accepts that hateful nonsense with impunity, as yours clearly does, then all I can say is I’m glad I’m one of those damned atheists! I don’t want to be like you. Sickening!
Goodlife - “... Can God’s ability to foreknow the future be reconciled with human free will? Where should we look for answers? Well not from you...”
Why not from me? I have as must insight into God as you do. Or are you claiming that you know Him more than I?
What do you think Goodlife? Is God Omniscient?
It's a question that you haven't got the guts to answer honestly isn't it? You know that to do so would be to condemn your own belief. It's probably the ultimate religious question - if God is Omniscient, he is also cruel and capricious as His many recorded deeds show; if He isn't Omniscient, He isn't really a God since there are things He does not and cannot know.
I'm not surprised you've tried desperately to fudge and frame your answers in such a way as to avoid answering a quite simple question. Many others have done so before you. Basically, when all said and done, you're dishonest both with others and with yourself. You like to claim that God said this and God said that and that you know what will happen when we die because God said so. But when it comes down to it, you're not prepared to say whether or not God can foresee the future of anyone or anything.
Your utter hypocrisy has been exposed for all to see. Well done.
Why not from me? I have as must insight into God as you do. Or are you claiming that you know Him more than I?
What do you think Goodlife? Is God Omniscient?
It's a question that you haven't got the guts to answer honestly isn't it? You know that to do so would be to condemn your own belief. It's probably the ultimate religious question - if God is Omniscient, he is also cruel and capricious as His many recorded deeds show; if He isn't Omniscient, He isn't really a God since there are things He does not and cannot know.
I'm not surprised you've tried desperately to fudge and frame your answers in such a way as to avoid answering a quite simple question. Many others have done so before you. Basically, when all said and done, you're dishonest both with others and with yourself. You like to claim that God said this and God said that and that you know what will happen when we die because God said so. But when it comes down to it, you're not prepared to say whether or not God can foresee the future of anyone or anything.
Your utter hypocrisy has been exposed for all to see. Well done.
Naomi@ How are those cast into the “lake of fire” tormented? That you should not be hasty in taking this expression as literal, is evident from the nature of the book of Revelation.
Because revelation was presented “in signs or symbols?
To help you appreciating that Jehovah is a loving and just God, as true christain can rest assured that his purpose for those who want to serve him.
Because revelation was presented “in signs or symbols?
To help you appreciating that Jehovah is a loving and just God, as true christain can rest assured that his purpose for those who want to serve him.
Goodlife, //How are those cast into the “lake of fire” tormented?//
Why are you asking me? You told your new friend, Locusts, in your last post.
//revelation 14:9-11 speaks of some who are “tormented with fire and sulphur . . .//
But suddenly once again the allegedly infallible bible doesn't mean what it says – even though you quoted it as fact. How funny! :o)
//Jehovah is a loving and just God, as true christain can rest assured that his purpose for those who want to serve him. //
Love and justice do not exist your God’s philosophy, nor in your obsequious, fawning, servitude. You’re terrified of dying and for that reason alone you have not only voluntarily abandoned your own precious intellect, but you are intent upon dragging anyone stupid enough – or naïve enough – to listen to you into a similar state of quivering cowardice by dishonestly contaminating their minds with this evil doctrine. You believe that your God made you in his image, and going by his record and your posts that would appear feasible – but it’s nothing to be proud of. As a human being, supposedly endowed with the benefit of free will, you should be ashamed of him – and of yourself.
Why are you asking me? You told your new friend, Locusts, in your last post.
//revelation 14:9-11 speaks of some who are “tormented with fire and sulphur . . .//
But suddenly once again the allegedly infallible bible doesn't mean what it says – even though you quoted it as fact. How funny! :o)
//Jehovah is a loving and just God, as true christain can rest assured that his purpose for those who want to serve him. //
Love and justice do not exist your God’s philosophy, nor in your obsequious, fawning, servitude. You’re terrified of dying and for that reason alone you have not only voluntarily abandoned your own precious intellect, but you are intent upon dragging anyone stupid enough – or naïve enough – to listen to you into a similar state of quivering cowardice by dishonestly contaminating their minds with this evil doctrine. You believe that your God made you in his image, and going by his record and your posts that would appear feasible – but it’s nothing to be proud of. As a human being, supposedly endowed with the benefit of free will, you should be ashamed of him – and of yourself.
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