Not Seen Much Of Ttt Since Friday.
ChatterBank1 min ago
The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.
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While I'm not suggesting that the AB atheists are the worst, this line might explain why the atheist v theist debate seems so one sided.
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Sith, //You talk about all these child marriages and whatever like they happen all the time.//
They do – and they’re happening in this country right now – but according to you there are so few that it doesn’t matter. Well, it does matter. One child abused is one too many. This not women’s rights – it’s children’s rights – and that is something that should concern us all – even you!
From Birdie: //I (and others) pointed out that a child cannot give their consent to such a union.//
From you: //Why not?//
Because they are children, and children are not capable of making an informed decision on something as serious and as life-changing as marriage. You say you wouldn’t marry your child off at an early age, but you won’t give a reason because you won’t criticise those parents that do – and neither will you criticise the dirty old men who make their penchant for sex with children ‘respectable’ through sham marriages. What on earth is wrong with you, Sith? Think! The welfare of children is more important than any religion or culture – and any right thinking person should care!
As for women converting, we’ve been through this. Your wife converted because she married you. Keyplus’ wife converted because she married him. Women, in the main, convert to Islam because they marry Muslims. That’s all. If they married men of a different faith, no doubt they’d convert to that. And never forget, western women marry men from all sorts of societies. Islam doesn’t hold a monopoly on mixed culture marriages. Look around you.
They do – and they’re happening in this country right now – but according to you there are so few that it doesn’t matter. Well, it does matter. One child abused is one too many. This not women’s rights – it’s children’s rights – and that is something that should concern us all – even you!
From Birdie: //I (and others) pointed out that a child cannot give their consent to such a union.//
From you: //Why not?//
Because they are children, and children are not capable of making an informed decision on something as serious and as life-changing as marriage. You say you wouldn’t marry your child off at an early age, but you won’t give a reason because you won’t criticise those parents that do – and neither will you criticise the dirty old men who make their penchant for sex with children ‘respectable’ through sham marriages. What on earth is wrong with you, Sith? Think! The welfare of children is more important than any religion or culture – and any right thinking person should care!
As for women converting, we’ve been through this. Your wife converted because she married you. Keyplus’ wife converted because she married him. Women, in the main, convert to Islam because they marry Muslims. That’s all. If they married men of a different faith, no doubt they’d convert to that. And never forget, western women marry men from all sorts of societies. Islam doesn’t hold a monopoly on mixed culture marriages. Look around you.
Sith - “... [a child cannot give their consent to marriage] Why not? Maybe not in this country...”
I'm genuinely sorry to say this Sith but I think that there is something seriously wrong with you. It would appear that you honestly believe that it is reasonable for a child to be able to 'agree' to a marriage. And just so we all know what we're talking about here, when we're talking about marriage, we're speaking about penetrative sexual intercourse.
I don't know whether you're just naïve or stupid but either way, you're an apologist for paedophilia / hebephilia – just like your mentor, Keyplus. You've both argued the same basic point at one time or another.
Since you seem to see no problem with very young girls marrying (ie. having sex with) adult men, I assume that even you have a view on the minimum age that a girl should be? What age would that be Sith? Six perhaps? Nine? Higher or lower? Please let us know – we're all fascinated.
I'm genuinely sorry to say this Sith but I think that there is something seriously wrong with you. It would appear that you honestly believe that it is reasonable for a child to be able to 'agree' to a marriage. And just so we all know what we're talking about here, when we're talking about marriage, we're speaking about penetrative sexual intercourse.
I don't know whether you're just naïve or stupid but either way, you're an apologist for paedophilia / hebephilia – just like your mentor, Keyplus. You've both argued the same basic point at one time or another.
Since you seem to see no problem with very young girls marrying (ie. having sex with) adult men, I assume that even you have a view on the minimum age that a girl should be? What age would that be Sith? Six perhaps? Nine? Higher or lower? Please let us know – we're all fascinated.
Sith - “.... so what the hell does all this [female children marrying (ie. having sex with) adult men] happening in other countries have to do with me...”
It has a great deal to do with you Sith. You condone it – not just in thought but in deed. You attempt to defend your appalling beliefs on a public website. You condone and support the abuse of children throughout the world and apparently see so shame in doing so.
You show yourself to be a very, very warped individual. You should be ashamed of yourself but like Keyplus, I suspect that shame is not an emotion that you are particularly familiar with.
It has a great deal to do with you Sith. You condone it – not just in thought but in deed. You attempt to defend your appalling beliefs on a public website. You condone and support the abuse of children throughout the world and apparently see so shame in doing so.
You show yourself to be a very, very warped individual. You should be ashamed of yourself but like Keyplus, I suspect that shame is not an emotion that you are particularly familiar with.
naomi, sorry to say so again, but i have given a good enough reason. I have said that i would not do it as i think it is wrong. That surely is a good enough reason and also explains my view in one word on this topic.
//As for women converting, we’ve been through this. Your wife converted because she married you. Keyplus’ wife converted because she married him. Women, in the main, convert to Islam because they marry Muslims. That’s all. If they married men of a different faith, no doubt they’d convert to that. And never forget, western women marry men from all sorts of societies. Islam doesn’t hold a monopoly on mixed culture marriages. Look around you.//
You are still proving my point. if women married muslims than in your view why should they as apparently to you islam degrades women and abuses them, yet people of different faiths and religion marry muslims even with what is being told in the media.
//As for women converting, we’ve been through this. Your wife converted because she married you. Keyplus’ wife converted because she married him. Women, in the main, convert to Islam because they marry Muslims. That’s all. If they married men of a different faith, no doubt they’d convert to that. And never forget, western women marry men from all sorts of societies. Islam doesn’t hold a monopoly on mixed culture marriages. Look around you.//
You are still proving my point. if women married muslims than in your view why should they as apparently to you islam degrades women and abuses them, yet people of different faiths and religion marry muslims even with what is being told in the media.
Birdie, It seems to me that Sith is in a dilemma. He says it is wrong, but nevertheless defends it. He cannot condemn the practice of child marriage for one reason and for one reason only - because his religion forbids him to criticise both the Koran and Mohammed. He therefore attempts to justify his failure by claiming that girls from other countries are mentally capable of making an informed decision that will affect the rest of their lives. He knows full well that no child is equipped to make such a decision, which, although he will not admit it, is why he says he would not marry his own daughter off at an early age. However, he has no hesitation in closing his eyes to the plight of other children, simply because his religion condones it. Fundamentally, his zeal for his new found faith has caused him not only to abandon his own intellect, undermining his own credibility in the process, but has resulted in him voluntarily, and quite shamefully, abrogating his moral responsibility to humanity. He is lying to himself.
Keyplus, on the other hand, was born and raised a Muslim in a Muslim country, and, although it might disappoint Sith, who tries so hard to be a bona fide Muslim, he and Keyplus do not share a similar mindset. Keyplus lacks education, and appears to hold a sincere, but erroneous, belief that the moment a girl reaches puberty she undergoes a magical transformation from child to woman, and therefore instantly becomes marriageable. He doesn’t view men who want to have sex with children as sick individuals – which is what they are – he doesn’t give that a moment’s thought - but rather believes that marriage at an early age will secure a girl’s future, and for that reason, he would have no hesitation in marrying his own young daughter to a grown man. Unlike Sith, it appears Keyplus genuinely doesn’t know right from wrong.
Sith, if you think it is wrong, why don’t you criticise those who do it instead of making excuses for them?
As for western women marrying Muslims, see Sandy’s reply.
Keyplus, on the other hand, was born and raised a Muslim in a Muslim country, and, although it might disappoint Sith, who tries so hard to be a bona fide Muslim, he and Keyplus do not share a similar mindset. Keyplus lacks education, and appears to hold a sincere, but erroneous, belief that the moment a girl reaches puberty she undergoes a magical transformation from child to woman, and therefore instantly becomes marriageable. He doesn’t view men who want to have sex with children as sick individuals – which is what they are – he doesn’t give that a moment’s thought - but rather believes that marriage at an early age will secure a girl’s future, and for that reason, he would have no hesitation in marrying his own young daughter to a grown man. Unlike Sith, it appears Keyplus genuinely doesn’t know right from wrong.
Sith, if you think it is wrong, why don’t you criticise those who do it instead of making excuses for them?
As for western women marrying Muslims, see Sandy’s reply.
Sith -
In my previous job as a police officer, I've met both the abuser and the abused and I can honestly say that as far as I am concerned, the sexual exploitation of children is quite the most abhorrent, morally bankrupt, and thoroughly evil practice imaginable.
It sickens me to my stomach that you and others like you can justify child abuse to yourselves. I fear that your religious beliefs have usurped your humanity and warped your mind. If I were a god fearing person, I'd worry for your eternal soul. Since I aren't, I can only lament your lack of morality and empathy for the suffering of countless children throughout the world.
I don't know how you sleep at night.
In my previous job as a police officer, I've met both the abuser and the abused and I can honestly say that as far as I am concerned, the sexual exploitation of children is quite the most abhorrent, morally bankrupt, and thoroughly evil practice imaginable.
It sickens me to my stomach that you and others like you can justify child abuse to yourselves. I fear that your religious beliefs have usurped your humanity and warped your mind. If I were a god fearing person, I'd worry for your eternal soul. Since I aren't, I can only lament your lack of morality and empathy for the suffering of countless children throughout the world.
I don't know how you sleep at night.
//“Many of these adult women who convert to Islam may be more interested in the singer than the song.” //
this still goes to show that muslims themselves than must be good people and nice people, not oppressive people. If a women marries a muslim and converts with everything that is being said in the media than she must know that a lot of what is in the media is lies or over exaggerated and if they are Christian or jew than a muslim can marry them and they do not need to convert, although it is much preferred. It is common sense that with every thing negative about muslims in the media now a days, women are still marrying muslim men of their own accord. A lot also convert. So this must show that they study the religion and see something which is right.
this still goes to show that muslims themselves than must be good people and nice people, not oppressive people. If a women marries a muslim and converts with everything that is being said in the media than she must know that a lot of what is in the media is lies or over exaggerated and if they are Christian or jew than a muslim can marry them and they do not need to convert, although it is much preferred. It is common sense that with every thing negative about muslims in the media now a days, women are still marrying muslim men of their own accord. A lot also convert. So this must show that they study the religion and see something which is right.
birdie, i have said i do not agree with it. that is a good enough reason. I am not supporting it or doing it, am i?
//I don't know how you sleep at night.//
i sleep rather well as i do not do these things, nor do i want to and i do not know anyone who does. so it does not effect me. as i have said many times i think it is wrong, but of course to you that will not make you agree. you want me to condemn the whole religion of course, which i will not.
//I don't know how you sleep at night.//
i sleep rather well as i do not do these things, nor do i want to and i do not know anyone who does. so it does not effect me. as i have said many times i think it is wrong, but of course to you that will not make you agree. you want me to condemn the whole religion of course, which i will not.
Sith, //It is common sense…//
You have the gall to talk about common sense? You wouldn’t recognise common sense if it jumped up and hit you on the head! The plight of children at the hands of men you refuse to criticise doesn’t affect you, so you don’t care. You say you’re not supporting it, but in effect that’s exactly what you’re doing. This is happening – and it’s happening right now - here in this country – and the perpetrators are men of your adopted religion, who justify it directly through your religious literature, but all you can do is tell us what ‘good and nice people’ Muslims are, and talk about love-smitten, women who, like you, can see no farther than the ends of their own noses. Sith, you are a lost cause.
You have the gall to talk about common sense? You wouldn’t recognise common sense if it jumped up and hit you on the head! The plight of children at the hands of men you refuse to criticise doesn’t affect you, so you don’t care. You say you’re not supporting it, but in effect that’s exactly what you’re doing. This is happening – and it’s happening right now - here in this country – and the perpetrators are men of your adopted religion, who justify it directly through your religious literature, but all you can do is tell us what ‘good and nice people’ Muslims are, and talk about love-smitten, women who, like you, can see no farther than the ends of their own noses. Sith, you are a lost cause.
Sith - “... you want me to condemn the whole religion... ”
Who said anything about condemning your whole religion? I certainly didn't.
That is how YOU view this matter. You're incapable of condemning anything your prophet did. You cannot bring yourself to even think about criticising just one aspect of his character, for you have been taught that that would be criticising 'the whole religion'. I pity you Sith. You are trapped in a mental prison that forces you to condone barbaric and abusive practices due to your fear of 'insulting' your god.
Who said anything about condemning your whole religion? I certainly didn't.
That is how YOU view this matter. You're incapable of condemning anything your prophet did. You cannot bring yourself to even think about criticising just one aspect of his character, for you have been taught that that would be criticising 'the whole religion'. I pity you Sith. You are trapped in a mental prison that forces you to condone barbaric and abusive practices due to your fear of 'insulting' your god.
Continued...
As for your comment, “... [the sexual abuse of children throughout the world] does not effect me...”, it beggars belief that you can be so callous and cold about this. You attempt to soften the blow of this appalling statement by adding, “... as i have said many times i think it [grown men marrying little girls] is wrong...”.
The problem with your claim is that you also think it's okay if the little girls in question agree to be married – a flagrant contradiction which you absolutely refuse to acknowledge exists. The fact that you see no apparent disparity with condemning the practice on the one hand and accepting the legitimacy of it on the other demonstrates just how effective religious teaching is at forcing you into the classic state of 'doublethink'...
“... To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully-constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them; to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it... ” [George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four]
As for your comment, “... [the sexual abuse of children throughout the world] does not effect me...”, it beggars belief that you can be so callous and cold about this. You attempt to soften the blow of this appalling statement by adding, “... as i have said many times i think it [grown men marrying little girls] is wrong...”.
The problem with your claim is that you also think it's okay if the little girls in question agree to be married – a flagrant contradiction which you absolutely refuse to acknowledge exists. The fact that you see no apparent disparity with condemning the practice on the one hand and accepting the legitimacy of it on the other demonstrates just how effective religious teaching is at forcing you into the classic state of 'doublethink'...
“... To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully-constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them; to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it... ” [George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four]
birdie //You are trapped in a mental prison that forces you to condone barbaric and abusive practices due to your fear of 'insulting' your god.//
if this is a mental prison, you must be the stupid interrogator.
Naomi, you are saying that i am doing nothing to stop it. I have said it is wrong. What else do you expect me to do? what are you doing? i dont see you campaigning? you can speak big on this site but in real life what are you actually doing? Nothing probably. You can say whatever you want here because no one can see you. I bet in real life youre a wimp. simple as. Even if you are doing something, that requires you to listen to others views, something you obviously cannot do.
You say that i do not know common sense, it is you who does not. it is common sense that if for any reason i agreed with it why would i still be here, on this thread arguing that i dont? Are you that mad? i have said, over and over and over again that i think it is wrong. If you are a bit slow please tell me, then i will happilly take my time to explain my views to you but i do not think that you are. What i do think you are is a stuck up women who wont listen to anyones views unless it is identical to your own. That is what you are.
Just for all the people who may not know what my views are on the subject, i have clearly said that i think it is WRONG and that i would not do it, practice it or encourage it. However a lot of it is cultural, which i cannot stop, and a lot of it takes place in other countries. I am British and was born in England. I do not live their nor do i know anyone in those countries. If this is still not a clear answer for you than god help you. No joking, seriously, god help you.
if this is a mental prison, you must be the stupid interrogator.
Naomi, you are saying that i am doing nothing to stop it. I have said it is wrong. What else do you expect me to do? what are you doing? i dont see you campaigning? you can speak big on this site but in real life what are you actually doing? Nothing probably. You can say whatever you want here because no one can see you. I bet in real life youre a wimp. simple as. Even if you are doing something, that requires you to listen to others views, something you obviously cannot do.
You say that i do not know common sense, it is you who does not. it is common sense that if for any reason i agreed with it why would i still be here, on this thread arguing that i dont? Are you that mad? i have said, over and over and over again that i think it is wrong. If you are a bit slow please tell me, then i will happilly take my time to explain my views to you but i do not think that you are. What i do think you are is a stuck up women who wont listen to anyones views unless it is identical to your own. That is what you are.
Just for all the people who may not know what my views are on the subject, i have clearly said that i think it is WRONG and that i would not do it, practice it or encourage it. However a lot of it is cultural, which i cannot stop, and a lot of it takes place in other countries. I am British and was born in England. I do not live their nor do i know anyone in those countries. If this is still not a clear answer for you than god help you. No joking, seriously, god help you.
Sith, You could begin by talking to your fellow muslims and you imam. Then you could ask your imam what he is doing about it and if your fellow muslims won't do anything then you will know the truth about them and your religion. I suspect however that you are too much of a wimp to stand up to the people that you look up to.
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