ChatterBank35 mins ago
Which is the one True Religion?
No what we happen to believe, the truth is the truth regardless of belief. There are so many different religions to choose from, and if any of them are right it can only be one of them. All the others are wrong. If I have chosen the wrong one, does that make me a bad person? Does it mean I could go to Hell even if I'm a good person?
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I'm no expert on world religions, but there seem to be a few common threads running through all the major religions, such as reaching out to help others. If you are "a good person" you will follow these broad guidelines, and I am sure the Supreme Being will acknowledge that in the afterlife, whatever your name for Him was on Earth.
How about all the good people who lived before our present religions were established? Are they all to be consigned to outer darkness just because they never observed rituals that hadn't been devised yet?
How about all the good people who lived before our present religions were established? Are they all to be consigned to outer darkness just because they never observed rituals that hadn't been devised yet?
Maybe you'll go to hell BECAUSE you're a good person. Maybe the world is controlled by a deity who doesn't like goody-two-shoes and will torture them endlessly. My view is that (1) there probably isn't a God, or an afterlife, and (2) even if there is, we have no way of knowing what will please them, so what we think is the right thing to do could just as easily be exactly the wrong thing to do - so we might as well just get on with living life the way we want to.
I have to say that, if the Bible, and other holy books (as it seems to me) are untrue for the most part, it was still a great act of foresight to write them: - trying to get people to be kind to one another by scaring the hell out of them. The invention of God as an ultimate being, and the "good / evil" myth are very clever ways of encouraging a more caring attitude to life.
In response to your question about being a "good person", I would speculate that you already fit the general impression of "good" by being so concerned about it in the first place! I would also say that there is no such thing as good and evil, in the usual sense.
In response to your question about being a "good person", I would speculate that you already fit the general impression of "good" by being so concerned about it in the first place! I would also say that there is no such thing as good and evil, in the usual sense.
First of all, I believe the chance of there being a God who created the earth/living beings is greater than the chance life being created on its own (evolution/big bang theory).
However, I have no compelling reason to choose one religion over another. Personally, I believe in Jesus Christ as the only God and Savior. If / when the Holy Spirit opens your eyes to the truth, you will know he is the one true God. You can't not believe the truth...
As far as being a good person, my religion says that a non-believer in Christ can still be a good person. But only those who believe in Christ will go to heaven.
I will pray to my God that you will find the one true religion.
But surely, it's just a lucky chance if you are brought up to believe in one thing or another. With this reasoning (my personal belief) everything happens just by chance. Your particular random upbringing might cause you to become a believer, atheist, carpenter, happy person...or anything. Would a true divine being really judge you and allow or disallow you eternal happiness just because you were lucky enough to select the correct religion? Would He really punish people who never followed the "true faith" because they had never heard of it? The more people think about it, the less it makes sense. It's probably why religions are dying out - after all, they teach some very dangerous ideas.
The bible's truth depends v.greatly on interpretation - ie its stories aren't necessarily true but may be examples, stories that we can learn from. For example the green cross code adverts on TV that we all learnt what happens to 'johnny the lively kid' when he didn't pay attention to the road. it may be fabricated but is good lesson for children none-the-less.
Also you can still lead a christian life, be a good person but not adopt christ as your saviour and call yourself a christian. Why should you? Again its about how individuals describe themselves and interprete 'labels'. At the end of the day we all have to face our own consciousness, and bad acts can easily lead to bad experience - ie help someone they will most probably help you back and vice versa if you are bad to someone it will lead to revenge etc
I cannot explain fully my understanding of this topic, so I will explain key points of what I believe about this topic and leave the reasons to be found in the bible...
I believe that God (Christian) reveals himself to us in two ways: through the Bible and through Creation. (Psalm 8 and 19 and Romans 1:18ff) Of course not everyone has been exposed to the Bible, but everyone is exposed to creation. Also, there are Christians all over the world spreading the good news of Jesus Christ. The chances are good that at some time in one's life, they've heard about God.
God has revealed himself to you, but you still have the choice whether or not to put your faith in him. Those who believe will be saved, those who don't will go to hell. (Ephesians 2:8 and Hebrews 3)
So, I don't believe it is a lucky chance that I believe in God. God has made himself known to me and I choose to follow him. This decision was not made because my parents told me to. I have studied other religions, I have thought about whether there is a God or not. But I have made a conscious and educated desicion that there is one true god and he is the God of the Christians.
All religions, like science, are branches of philosphy. It must be said however that Science has a pretty good track-record. Predictions made thru science almost always prove to be correct and science not only explains the creation of universe and life within it but offers a
fair amount of measurable proof to back up its claims. By contrast most religions have a pretty poor track-record as regards proof and seem to rely on ignorance(faith) and fear(hell) for their existance.
The Bible makes specific references to facts, events, people in history. You say there is no proof that the Bible is true, I say there is less proof that the Bible is false.
As far as the origination of cosmos/life goes, the Big Bang Theory and evolution are no more "provable" than life being created by a God.
Science and Religion don't have to contradict or explain eachother. Science is a matter of what is physical. Religion is a matter of the heart and mind, something that science has yet to explain...
In response, particularly, to post No 8.
But why particularly did God choose you? Surely, no one can be more eligible for eternal happiness than another? If we were born equal, live equally, and die as equals...where does the separation take place? You might just as well kill everyone with an "S" in their name and let the rest live if you really wanted to copy God. What does that remind you of?
Sorry about this - I've gotten all offensive, now, but it's that kind of topic.
But why particularly did God choose you? Surely, no one can be more eligible for eternal happiness than another? If we were born equal, live equally, and die as equals...where does the separation take place? You might just as well kill everyone with an "S" in their name and let the rest live if you really wanted to copy God. What does that remind you of?
Sorry about this - I've gotten all offensive, now, but it's that kind of topic.
"The Bible makes specific references to facts, events, people in history." So did Forrest Gump, but that's not true either. (In FG's case, it's just a steaming pile of right-wing horse-cack.)
"As far as the origination of cosmos/life goes, the Big Bang Theory and evolution are no more "provable" than life being created by a God." Evolution is visible in the world today and Red Shift is a far more plausible explanation for the fact that we got here through the Big Bang than the Biblical explanation.
Back when I was a god botherer, I used to get annoyed at people who insisted on taking the Bible literally. Surely the creation myth in Genesis is a brilliant way of explaining evolution in a way that makes sense to people with no ability to conceive of the timescales and processes involved? In no way does it gainsay it, yet Christians insist on this literal version despite the fact their own messiah used metaphor in order to impart important messages. It makes no sense!
"As far as the origination of cosmos/life goes, the Big Bang Theory and evolution are no more "provable" than life being created by a God." Evolution is visible in the world today and Red Shift is a far more plausible explanation for the fact that we got here through the Big Bang than the Biblical explanation.
Back when I was a god botherer, I used to get annoyed at people who insisted on taking the Bible literally. Surely the creation myth in Genesis is a brilliant way of explaining evolution in a way that makes sense to people with no ability to conceive of the timescales and processes involved? In no way does it gainsay it, yet Christians insist on this literal version despite the fact their own messiah used metaphor in order to impart important messages. It makes no sense!
Squirrel - You present a good argument. My response is too long to post. [Email address removed as per site policy. AB Editor]
Waldo - 3 rebuttals
1. The Bible was written over centuries by different authors, it makes reference to current events, and it contains a consist theme and message throughout. Forrest Gump refers to past, but recent events. No comparison.
2. I am not familiar with the Red Shift Theory, please submit a brief explanation. Plants and animals can evolve to adapt to their environment. There is no proof that they can evolve into a different species. If you have proof otherwise, please enlighten me.
3. The Bible is both metaphoric and literal, sometimes at the same time. For example, God created the world in 6 days. I do not believe God created the world in 144 hours.
Waldo - 3 rebuttals
1. The Bible was written over centuries by different authors, it makes reference to current events, and it contains a consist theme and message throughout. Forrest Gump refers to past, but recent events. No comparison.
2. I am not familiar with the Red Shift Theory, please submit a brief explanation. Plants and animals can evolve to adapt to their environment. There is no proof that they can evolve into a different species. If you have proof otherwise, please enlighten me.
3. The Bible is both metaphoric and literal, sometimes at the same time. For example, God created the world in 6 days. I do not believe God created the world in 144 hours.
Most religions are based on the idea that I can get right with God by what I do, good works, rituals etc. it is interesting that this fits well with human thinking. I can do it.
Christianity (the Bible) says that we can do nothing to make ourselves right with God. We have to simply be forgiven, a forgiveness that God offers through the death of his son to everyone. This relies on nothing a person does, simply on God, a very un-human thing.
Hamish
Christianity (the Bible) says that we can do nothing to make ourselves right with God. We have to simply be forgiven, a forgiveness that God offers through the death of his son to everyone. This relies on nothing a person does, simply on God, a very un-human thing.
Hamish
"1. The Bible was written over centuries by different authors, it makes reference to current events, and it contains a consist theme and message throughout. Forrest Gump refers to past, but recent events. No comparison."
'An Eye for an Eye' and 'Turn the other cheek'? Not to mention the abrupt change of tone in dogma as Paul's teaching become the predominant flavour of Christianity. "Rom.9:13: As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. " where Jesus according to the gospels tells us that God loves everybody.
The geneaologies of Christ differ in different gospels.
Job 7:9 "so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more." VS 1 Cor.15:16 "For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised."
Whatever your other feelings about it, the bible is certain not consistant.
"2. I am not familiar with the Red Shift Theory, please submit a brief explanation. Plants and animals can evolve to adapt to their environment. There is no proof that they can evolve into a different species. If you have proof otherwise, please enlighten me."
'An Eye for an Eye' and 'Turn the other cheek'? Not to mention the abrupt change of tone in dogma as Paul's teaching become the predominant flavour of Christianity. "Rom.9:13: As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. " where Jesus according to the gospels tells us that God loves everybody.
The geneaologies of Christ differ in different gospels.
Job 7:9 "so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more." VS 1 Cor.15:16 "For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised."
Whatever your other feelings about it, the bible is certain not consistant.
"2. I am not familiar with the Red Shift Theory, please submit a brief explanation. Plants and animals can evolve to adapt to their environment. There is no proof that they can evolve into a different species. If you have proof otherwise, please enlighten me."
Red Shift, in a nutshell, is a way of determining that all matter in the universe is moving away from a common point of origin. It therefore supports the theory that allmatter originated in one spot and is moving away from it, as postulated by the big bang. A basic overview is found at
Um... target=_blank>http://www.dustbunny.com/afk/howdo/redshift/redshi
ft.htm
Um... "Plants and animals can evolve to adapt to their environment." That *is* evolution! Genetics would disprove your next contention that one species cannot evolve into another one.
"3. The Bible is both metaphoric and literal, sometimes at the same time. For example, God created the world in 6 days. I do not believe God created the world in 144 hours."
Er... surely that means that the example you have given is purely metaphorical then?
Consistency: This is a quote from David Guzik, "How could God "hate" Esau? We shouldn't soften the strength of the term (as in saying it is only "love less"); yet in that God chose Jacob, He left Esau unchosen for greatness of blessing. God's "hatred" of Esau was not active, but passive--He neglected to bless Esau they way He chose to bless Jacob." Remember, neither deserved to be blessed - all men deserve to be punished for their sins.
Geneaology: http://sermonarchive.com/new/gospels4errant.txt
Job 7:9 - "so he who goes down to the grave does not return". Grave is translated from the Hebrew word Sheol - used many times throughout the bible meaning grave, pit, or hell. Job is trying to describe his anguish, he is not predicting his future. 1 Cor 15:16 - Paul was writing to the Corinthians because some where denying the resurrection of the body. Greek anthropology looks with contempt upon matter, they had a hard time believing in the resurrection of the body. Paul was saying to them that they can't believe in the resurrection of Christ and not believe in the resurrection of the body. Read the whole chapter. So, the Bible is consistent when you look at it as a whole and in context.
Job 7:9 - "so he who goes down to the grave does not return". Grave is translated from the Hebrew word Sheol - used many times throughout the bible meaning grave, pit, or hell. Job is trying to describe his anguish, he is not predicting his future. 1 Cor 15:16 - Paul was writing to the Corinthians because some where denying the resurrection of the body. Greek anthropology looks with contempt upon matter, they had a hard time believing in the resurrection of the body. Paul was saying to them that they can't believe in the resurrection of Christ and not believe in the resurrection of the body. Read the whole chapter. So, the Bible is consistent when you look at it as a whole and in context.
Just because species have similar genetic types, how does that prove that one evolved from the other.
Evolution theory and creation theory both state that matter (at it's basic, atoms) came to being from nothing. So the question is, what cause the creation of matter, God or a Big Bang. I guess no one can prove that - a personal choice everyone will have to make.
God created the world in 6 days - not necessarily 144 hours. Hours are a measure of the time it takes the earth to make one revolution. Day 1 - God created the heavens and the earth. No sun yet. Is the earth revolving? I don't know. If not, how can the time that past be measured? Maybe this lapse of time took 1,000,000 hours. Then God created the light. Ok, I guess now the earth is revolving and the sun sheds light on it. Maybe at it's revolving at its current speed, maybe not. "And there was evening and there was morning-the first day." So that was the first day - composed of ? hours.
I've only recently begun to learn about evolution, at a simple level, but for those who have studied it, it can be seen how ambient radiation in the atmosphere can "interfere" with the DNA sequence of an organism, on a regular basis. As I understand it, once the DNA is altered, an almost random physical change may take place in the animal (or its offspring, or something) that makes it slightly different from the others. The change might make the animal better-adapted, etc. etc. (you all know what evolution is; there are plenty of places to get a real explanation). The point is, there is extensive proof to support it. That aside, and getting back to the topic - allll the way up the top there - whoever you ask, you will get a slightly different version of what the "One True Religion" is. Forgive me for jumping to an uncomfortable conclusion, but there really probably isn't a God at all...not even one. Believe whatever you want to believe (or stop believing and just pretend, like some do!) and you'll still end up in the same state as everyone else - in a box. And if you are in a religion, you're not even part of the majority anymore (hence the diminishing of religion), so you can't even be a proper sheep! Although'you are part of a flock, and you definitely have 'the wool pulled over your eyes.'
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