Is The Price Of Drinks In Pubs Too High?
ChatterBank1 min ago
Are You Pro Lock Down Or Against?
92 Answers
It seems that the country is divided.
On one side is those who say let's get things back to normal and the consequences of the devistation of the economy is not a price worth paying against the relatively small number of deaths (50000 out of a population of 67 million).
The other side says full lock down must continue until there are no deaths and we have a vaccine, ie lives are more important than the economy.
I am in the get things back to normal camp ASAP, as we are a lot better capable of treating the illness than we were before and its something we will just have to live with, like flu deaths.
What do others think?
On one side is those who say let's get things back to normal and the consequences of the devistation of the economy is not a price worth paying against the relatively small number of deaths (50000 out of a population of 67 million).
The other side says full lock down must continue until there are no deaths and we have a vaccine, ie lives are more important than the economy.
I am in the get things back to normal camp ASAP, as we are a lot better capable of treating the illness than we were before and its something we will just have to live with, like flu deaths.
What do others think?
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I see the sense in both camps but, in the early hours of the morning when I hear the young drunks coming home from town, arguing, shouting, girls screaming or singing (I use that term oh so loosely),taxi doors slamming, etc, etc, etc, i'm all in favour of total lockdown :-/ These last few months have been ever so peaceful. Sigh.
I've no comment on the original question beyond expressing my puzzlement at the Government's approach. But I do agree with woofgang @11:58. And besides, why would we *want* to return so quickly to an "old normal"? We've just discovered that the "old normal" leads directly to a conflict between safeguarding lives and safeguarding the economy. That shouldn't have ever been the choice.
very good woofie
all changed utterly- - - cant recall who said that Chamberlain poss
//I am not sure how saying corona virus instead of covid keeps the fear going?//
well there is a lot of blah-de-blah about that. Think AB for blah.
one is a virus and one is the disease. o lardy dah
BUT I agree that you die from plague and not from Pasteurella, and you die from AIDS and not HIV
as for - what does it matter, let us call a thing a thing and not another thing ( Butler ) - trump refers to the Chinese Killer Virus and that of course is to absolve him of blame and say that all the deaths of good american boys is down to Xi Peng
so to a certain extent the words do matter
all changed utterly- - - cant recall who said that Chamberlain poss
//I am not sure how saying corona virus instead of covid keeps the fear going?//
well there is a lot of blah-de-blah about that. Think AB for blah.
one is a virus and one is the disease. o lardy dah
BUT I agree that you die from plague and not from Pasteurella, and you die from AIDS and not HIV
as for - what does it matter, let us call a thing a thing and not another thing ( Butler ) - trump refers to the Chinese Killer Virus and that of course is to absolve him of blame and say that all the deaths of good american boys is down to Xi Peng
so to a certain extent the words do matter
I made the decision from day one that I wouldn't go into lockdown, and never did, what I did do was use my own common sense after listening to what facts were available at the time, so went about with a high level of caution, avoiding large crowds, and shopping with caution and limited visits. My exercising was unlimited in isolated locations that's because no government is going to dictate to me, and it was impossible to police or prove how long I had been out, plus I decided that the chances of getting the virus, or passing it on, in open spaces with no, or very few people around was nil. To answer your question, total lockdown again would be suicidal to an already very damaged economy, so not an option in my view. Back to normal? well to a certain degree hopefully, but for a start we need to be rid of this ridiculous idea that people can be herded like cattle everywhere they go or tread, and be bombarded with signage of caution every three or four steps scaring the lives out of young kids and the not so strong minded older generation, the odd free standing wash your hands sign reminder may help, along with the already available hand gel in the shop door ways, the latter should be the norm in my view anyway especially supermarkets. This has proved to be a real test for any government BUT, The half baked ideas we have seen coming from this one is beyond a joke, I'm sorry but I think Boris is just one big bag of wind, that I was fooled into voting for. We have no choice the way I see it but to get things up and running, especially the schools, we have enough uneducated idiots walking the streets, we can do without increasing that figure. For the sensible ones out there, they already know what to do to help stop the spread, and still go about their own business.
Looking back is interesting and illuminating, things become clearer and gain a sharply delineated context. At the start all countries, UK included, appear to have taken the news of an impending tsunami in a relaxed way - this is happening over there but there is no real need to worry, it affects Them but We are more capable. Then, as it hit, the mood remained bullish/complacent (UK), we are going to show everyone how to deal with this blip which They are whinging over, we can take it. As the situation turned out to be every bit as challenging for Us as They had warned it would, increasing desperation/thrashing/panic set in but We remained the World's Best at everything. As the crisis rolled relentlessly on, the same measures as They had used were introduced by Us, just later.
As the record/evidence mounted, some began to be uneasy over the mounting death toll. The determination to be World Beating remained but arguments in support of that became increasingly difficult to maintain. Comparisons with the performance over there were discouraged and frowned upon. After all, They can't count, We live in flats, there are different ways to die while a Covid patient and some of them don't count, we shouldn't count Covid deaths at all but instead guess at the total within all deaths these days. Don't say it, just make sure you think it: We are still the World's Best.
Most recently a clever way out of the fact that 40,000-45,000 people have probably needlessly died in the crisis: We have failed because nothing should have been done, we should have allowed far more people to be eliminated for the economy's sake. Natural selection by contagion should have been the choice. Equally, because almost everything is unknown about this disease (and there is no cure), all of us should take part in the latest "must have" craze: Acquire Covid 19 and dice with death. If it doesn't kill you then you can as a "bonus numbers choice2 take your chances on which long term ill effects you may be saddled with. You may have seriously reduced lung function and be chronically low on energy. You may be hobbling along on knackered kidneys. You may even hit the jackpot and come out of it with reduced brain health/function. All of these things also offer the added frisson of having direct negative effects on the economy because the after effects so far reported appear to be spread right across the age spectrum except there is some indication that while the elderly are at higher risk of dying the other ages are left with more of the millstone. Just think, the economy is going to gain new liabilities with healthcare implications on top of sharply reduced performance/capability among the surviving (new) "heroes" of this particular battle. And we still don't know how many "heroes" there will be - isn't it exciting ?
Bring on Covid, let it rip - anyone ? Are You Pro Lock Down Or Against?
As the record/evidence mounted, some began to be uneasy over the mounting death toll. The determination to be World Beating remained but arguments in support of that became increasingly difficult to maintain. Comparisons with the performance over there were discouraged and frowned upon. After all, They can't count, We live in flats, there are different ways to die while a Covid patient and some of them don't count, we shouldn't count Covid deaths at all but instead guess at the total within all deaths these days. Don't say it, just make sure you think it: We are still the World's Best.
Most recently a clever way out of the fact that 40,000-45,000 people have probably needlessly died in the crisis: We have failed because nothing should have been done, we should have allowed far more people to be eliminated for the economy's sake. Natural selection by contagion should have been the choice. Equally, because almost everything is unknown about this disease (and there is no cure), all of us should take part in the latest "must have" craze: Acquire Covid 19 and dice with death. If it doesn't kill you then you can as a "bonus numbers choice2 take your chances on which long term ill effects you may be saddled with. You may have seriously reduced lung function and be chronically low on energy. You may be hobbling along on knackered kidneys. You may even hit the jackpot and come out of it with reduced brain health/function. All of these things also offer the added frisson of having direct negative effects on the economy because the after effects so far reported appear to be spread right across the age spectrum except there is some indication that while the elderly are at higher risk of dying the other ages are left with more of the millstone. Just think, the economy is going to gain new liabilities with healthcare implications on top of sharply reduced performance/capability among the surviving (new) "heroes" of this particular battle. And we still don't know how many "heroes" there will be - isn't it exciting ?
Bring on Covid, let it rip - anyone ? Are You Pro Lock Down Or Against?
The answer to your question will change with time. If you are talking about right now then I am against lockdown. Deaths are 'tolerable' (yes, yes if it happened to me I would think different but then I wouldn't be looking objectively would I?) and the economy desperately needs to get going to stop Covid causing more associated deaths.
All very interesting answers, it would seem just from this small selection that the majority is for getting back to normal ASAP. I myself do not know anyone who has been infected and just wonder if anyone here who would like to open things up again have been personally affected by the virus. If I had, I still don't think it would sway me the other way.
We need to be back to normal; not this ridiculous ‘new’ normal, but normal normal.
As unpalatable as it is, the death of the old and the vulnerable is collateral damage and we must learn to accept it. The fact of the matter is, this is a virus that in the vast vast majority of cases does not kill the young and the not so young if the latter are in reasonable health.
It isn’t going away for the foreseeable, so we have to learn to live with it.
The old and the vulnerable should continue to remain vigilant, and for those who are quivering with fright they can also remain hiding if they so wish if their employers allow it (as a by the way, we’re currently working on our back to the office programme and launched a Survey Monkey to garner the thoughts of people, and out of the 70 people in my office we had two people who said they were too afraid to return, both in their 20s and both in good health, and I’ve told them their fear (for fear read being pathetic) is not a good enough reason for not returning.
As it stands there is a 4000-1 chance of catching it - they are bloody long odds.
As unpalatable as it is, the death of the old and the vulnerable is collateral damage and we must learn to accept it. The fact of the matter is, this is a virus that in the vast vast majority of cases does not kill the young and the not so young if the latter are in reasonable health.
It isn’t going away for the foreseeable, so we have to learn to live with it.
The old and the vulnerable should continue to remain vigilant, and for those who are quivering with fright they can also remain hiding if they so wish if their employers allow it (as a by the way, we’re currently working on our back to the office programme and launched a Survey Monkey to garner the thoughts of people, and out of the 70 people in my office we had two people who said they were too afraid to return, both in their 20s and both in good health, and I’ve told them their fear (for fear read being pathetic) is not a good enough reason for not returning.
As it stands there is a 4000-1 chance of catching it - they are bloody long odds.
Where has Deskdiary abused anyone? I'm afraid as has been said before, the media have a lot to blame for this "irrational fear". We are dealing with a virus, that we may or may not have an effective vaccine for in the future. The treatment for anyone unfortunate enough to be hospitalised with Covid, has improved dramatically since the early days of this outbreak. People should be going back to work, schools should be reopening, we should be able to go for a meal or a drink without having to give our details. In mainland Europe the wearing of masks has been far more extensive than here, yet they are seeing a rise in infections (not necessarily hospital admissions). If we don't find a vaccine, should we continue like this indefinitely?
The "new normal" might include taking our health and the health of the community more seriously, valuing essential workers more highly, working at home more often than previously, and perhaps a few other things -- none of which strike me as things we'd be desperate to avoid. Let us accept for a moment that the danger from *this* virus is more or less past (which it isn't: see the US, for example). But that doesn't matter: the "old normal" will certainly be faced with the same problem again. Are we supposed to be equally helpless in the face of the next threat? To be equally careless of the lives of the old and the vulnerable? I don't believe for a second that we should be desperate to return to the world that was so shattered by Covid-19 in the first place.
People will die, and people are continuing to die, albeit in numbers that are statistically irrelevant as a % of the population, but, as heartless as it sounds, I’d rather the old die than the young.
I turned 50 last year, and my kids are 11 and 16 - given the choice I’d much rather the virus affected me than them.
I turned 50 last year, and my kids are 11 and 16 - given the choice I’d much rather the virus affected me than them.
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