Listener 4008

[cruciverbali]

This week's crossword is Knitwear by 149

[midazolam]

go back to our original thoughts waterloo

tightly-knit - as in there is only one possible final grid solution - but i agree with some of the cluing scorpius

[midazolam]

that should be "your" original thoughts

[segue]

Thanks midazolam and bobbycollins for your explanations, much appreciated. Time to get on with this week's (and last!)

[Walterloo]

Thanks Midazolam. Still battling through it though. The cluing is certainly not helping because I'm not sure of a couple of answers, they don't fit precisely to the wordplay. In a couple of cases I have a clash of THREE letters. One from the across answer, one from the down and the third from the obvious thematic answer! I can only presume that I have one of the clued answers incorrect? I'm presuming all the squares eventually contain one letter.

[cluelessJoe]

Good to see you back to Fiiday Night form Midazolam! ook me a bit longer but got ther eventually hopefully without dropping a stitch.
Yes Walterloo, just one word per square ... maybe your obvious thematic answer is the one to run with?

[Clamzy]

Waterloo
You will notice that both across and down answers begin with a purl, which is why you have three possibles in each of those cells, always at the beginning of those answers. This shows you're on the right track Good luck.

[Walterloo]

Thanks guys for pushing me up the hill. I've got it now. I really couldn't get my head round this for awhile, which is a sign of a GOOD crossword, really, but I didn't enjoy myself doing it, which is rare for me. I normally have a grin on my face when I've finished one. Not today! Me being a bit thlow (thick and slow) didn't help but the cluing as stated went against the grain, and the mess I'd made (unavoidably) added to my feeling of unsatisfaction.

[himsuperstar]

i seem to have more than one way to fill 1 down and 18 across - one way uses a proper name as stated in blurb but that involves 1 down being entered unchanged from clue answer. alternatively i can change 1 down and have an abbreviation in chambers for 18 across - but then no proper name in the grid
a little nudge please

[Walterloo]

I'd like to go back slightly on my remarks about this crossword, to be fair, because of anyone out there who still hasn't finished it. The grid construction and the overall IDEA of the thing is very good. And, as always, far better than anything I will ever be able to come up with. I don't feel too dorkish taking a step back on some negativity, but nonetheless a little better within myself for posting this! I've warmed to it now, and that's nothing to do with the glass of Scotch I poured myself to iron out the wrinkles of a hard-fought battle.

[Clamzy]

himsuper..
I don't have the proper noun at 1 down, either in the clue answer or the grid entry. There are a few proper nouns in the completed grid, but only one of them doesn't appear in Chambers as a normal noun.

[spiderFreak]

Wow, I'm MIGHTILY impressed by this one - however did the setter ever get that grid to work with all real words. I'm not a setter myself, but that seems unbelievable.

himsuperstar - in answer to your last post, you have to follow the knitting pattern. The consistency of that is what makes it all so impressive.

[Clamzy]

Himsuperstar
PS to above - 18 across isn't a proper noun either.

[JackDeCrow]

I agree with you, Walterloo - am also feeling a bit dissatisfied. I think it's because there's no real reason why "p", "k" and "*" should mean precisely the things they do here. Maybe a bit of cryptic explanation in the rubric would have actually made it more satisfying? Having said that, given how it does work , I agree it's clever, although I'm still trying to convince myself whether there is a one-to-one relationship between the final grid entries and other clues, which would be even more clever and help to confirm a couple of unchecked cells.

[jamesah]

After a few hours I've solved most of the clues but still have a blank grid! I have no idea what purl means in this context although to others it seems to have been obvious. My wife's explanations haven't helped! Some clues are asterisked- does the reason for this become clear? The preamble is unusually unhelpful.

[Philoctetes]

I seem to have a problem in 33D - my Chambers CD gives two possibilities (though one is a plural of an obscure word). Anyone else?
I found this quite pleasing, having tried several possibilities for the various instructions, when everything came together. But, as in recent weeks, too much cold solving required to be a classic for me

[JackDeCrow]

Had the same problem with 33d Philoctetes. However, one of the answers could have its definition in 2a. I see a lot of other possible such relationships, but not quite a full set. Hence my earlier comment about confirming unchecked entries, which I also think applies to 7d. Although Chambers actually only has one word which can fit 7d, it's more pleasing to relate its meaning to something in 17a, if you see what I'm getting at.

[Clamzy]

Jamesah
If you lightly pencil the asterisked answers into your grid you may see that with a letter substitution or two, you will have (easily recognised) thematic words. This method can then be applied to the rest of the answers. Don't waste any time looking for a meaning to Purl.

Regarding 33 down the answer is unique. The other ????A is not given in my Chambers as a plural of ????UM.

[JackDeCrow]

True, Clamzy, but then Chambers doesn't have the implied plural for the original answer of 5d either!

[Clamzy]

I bow to your knowledge of Latin - mine is scarce to non-existent as was cruelly exposed by Alban's recent puzzle.
In fact it's so bad I'm thinking of applying to Bournemouth Council for a job.

[Scorpius]

I Thought I'd finished this puzzle on Saturday.
On checking my grid for any errors I noticed that there's an ambiguity in the entry of 33 down, according to Chambers, which has been spotted above. I decided that there must be a way of resolving this ambiguity thematically and therefore concluded that an earlier assumption was wrong. When I checked all the letter changes in the p(url) cells I expected to find the letters had moved elsewhere, but this is not the case. For instance, the first letter of the answer to 10 down does not appear anywhere in the final grid.
IF the rational for the final grid is that, after determining most cells according to a pattern, the remaining 20 or so cells (ignoring the thematic entries) are determined by the only things that fit, then there's an ambiguity in 33 down. BOTH possibilities are certainly listed in the Chambers CD Rom, and we've already had at least 2 cases this year where a plural form has been used that has been implied rather than explicitly stated in Chambers. If you have the Chambers CD ROM, enter the first 4 letters that are definite followed by '?' for the unknown final letter. You'll get 2 answers.